Unglossy: Decoding Brand in Culture
Welcome to "Unglossy: Decoding Brand in Culture," where we delve into the essence of branding beyond the surface sheen. A brand is more than just a logo or a slogan; it's a reflection of identity, values, and reputation that resonates within our cultural landscape. Enjoy as we peel back the layers to uncover the raw, authentic stories behind the people and products that shape our world.
This isn't your average corporate podcast. Join Tom Frank, partner and chief creative officer at Merrick Creative, Mickey Factz, Hip Hop Artist and Founder and CEO of Pendulum Ink, and Jeffrey Sledge, a seasoned music industry veteran, for "Unglossy" as they get to the heart of what truly drives individual and organizational brand . In a world where where image is carefully curated and narratives meticulously crafted, we're here to explore the moments of vulnerability, pivotal decisions, and creative sparks that fuel the relationship between brand and culture.
Get ready for a thought-provoking journey into the heart and soul of branding – the unscripted, unfiltered, and truly Unglossy truth. Tune in to "Unglossy: Decoding Brand in Culture" on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube or wherever you catch your podcasts. Follow us on Instagram @UnglossyPod and join the conversation.
Unglossy is produced and distributed by Merrick Studios. Let your story take the mic. Learn more at https://merrick-studios.com
Unglossy: Decoding Brand in Culture
Chris Atlas: Part 1 – Evolution of Marketing in Music
Ready to dive into a world where music meets marketing? Join us on Unglossy as we sit down with industry veteran Chris Atlas to uncover the symbiotic relationship between music, brand, marketing, and culture. We reminisce about our personal encounters with promotional products from major brands and how they’ve shaped our views, giving you a peek into the unpolished reality behind the glossy ads. Chris shares his incredible journey from working with industry giants to spearheading innovative projects at Fat Beats, offering a treasure trove of insights on the creative and strategic decisions that define this dynamic landscape.
Travel back with us to the vibrant 90s music scene, where we explore the legacy and evolution of music labels through Chris’s experiences, from aspiring artist to a key player at Tommy Boy Records. Learn how digital piracy transformed the industry and discover the cyclical nature of hip-hop, where periods of creative lull give way to groundbreaking artistry. We also discuss the resurgence of veteran artists and the inspiration they provide to the younger generation, all while emphasizing the importance of maintaining a unique and genuine voice in the ever-evolving world of hip-hop. This is more than just a podcast—it’s a masterclass in understanding the interplay between music, culture, and branding.
"Unglossy: Decoding Brand in Culture," is produced and distributed by Merrick Creative and hosted by Merrick Chief Creative Officer, Tom Frank, hip hop artist and founder of Pendulum Ink, Mickey Factz, and music industry veteran, Jeffrey Sledge. Tune in to hear this thought-provoking discussion on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you catch your podcasts. Follow us on Instagram @UnglossyPod to join the conversation and support the show at https://unglossypod.buzzsprout.com/.
Welcome to the "All About M.E. Podcast ," the podcast where music meets the...
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This week on Unglossy.
Speaker 2:Between music streaming platforms, content streaming platforms, digital streaming platforms. I mean, it's all a matter of time, right, and we're vying for the attention of the consumer. We're four guys, you know, on a Zoom right and, as much as we may want to consume everything, let's be honest we, we can't from the top.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm tom frank I'm mickey fax and I'm jeffrey sledge welcome to unglossy, to coning, brand and culture. I'm tom frank, partner and chief creative officer at merit creative. This is mickey fax, hip-hop artist and founder and CEO of Pendulum Inc. And that is Jeffrey Sledge, a seasoned music industry veteran who has worked with some of the biggest artists in the business. We're here to explore the moments of vulnerability, pivotal decisions and creative sparks that fuel the relationship between brand and culture. Get ready for a thought-provoking journey into the heart and soul of branding the unscripted, unfiltered and truly unglossy truth.
Speaker 3:Hey, we got a good one today. Yeah, I enjoyed this conversation a lot. Yeah, Chris is one of. He's a pioneer man, legend in the music industry, chris Atlas. Great to have him here man, that was crazy man.
Speaker 1:Hey, mickey, I got a question for you, though I got a question that popped in my head when we were talking about Chris. You told the story of meeting Lupe and doing the first concert in Tokyo. Yes, right, yes, you're not the inspiration behind the song Paris Tokyo, where he picks up the phone and one of his guys said let's go to Tokyo and make some bread.
Speaker 3:No, so Paris and Tokyo was on that project that he played for us at Cornerstone, so no, Ah, so you were not the inspiration.
Speaker 1:I thought I had figured something out right then.
Speaker 3:and there, no, no, no, no. But shout out to Cornerstone man. It was a great time yeah.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, yeah, I definitely. I'm glad we got to mention Cornerstone because it was an important part of the music business for the time it was around. It really meant a lot.
Speaker 1:Yeah, all the labels used it, like all of them used it, and it was bigger than music, though, which I didn't realize. I mean he talked a little bit about a lot of other projects that were music adjacent, but we're, we're even bigger. Which?
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:I was blown away by this guy.
Speaker 3:I mean oh yeah, and the parties, the parties, man, you can't forget about, oh yeah, the party.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I totally forgot about it. I mean, have a party. I'd come up there sometime and it would just be like beer or stuff. You know they had all these brands sending them stuff all the time. Yeah, that's true, there was always stuff in the office like liquor or Xboxes or soda, whatever it was. Just the office was like a. It was damn near like a warehouse, like I'm not talking about size-wise, what I'm saying was that much stuff in there.
Speaker 1:That's the great thing about marketing. You got to experience whatever you're marketing.
Speaker 4:Exactly, you got to send yourself cases or something you know, so you've experienced that, tom.
Speaker 3:You've experienced cases of product and great, you know things like that.
Speaker 1:I used to do all the marketing for the Girl Scouts of America and we would have more Girl. Scout cookies sitting in this office than you could possibly imagine. But yeah, some liquor brands, a lot of food brands. Right, I mean I didn't buy maple syrup for about 10 years because and I think I just drained the last bottle, I'm out I haven't worked with them in probably five years. I stored up a lot of maple syrup.
Speaker 4:It's a trip, how you get that free stuff, like I remember people coming to the label all the time. They come to the label all the time and just giving people. You know, we always had cds around because it was that was what we did. So you'd be like here's the new backstreet boys or here's the new britney or the new r kelly or whatever it was, and people were like actually, who gave them like a gold bar? Yeah, drawers full of that stuff.
Speaker 4:It would be nothing, they'd be like oh my god, can I get one of those too?
Speaker 3:yo, I took a lot of stuff because because at that moment, at that time, jive was underneath sony yeah so all of the michael jackson stuff? Oh gosh, I snatched everything. You kidding me. I still got some crazy Michael Jackson stuff and some Prince stuff, because Prince was there too.
Speaker 4:No, no, prince and Warner Prince and Warner Brothers. Oh, he's on Warner Brothers, prince and. Warner Brothers.
Speaker 1:You must have been walking into multiple offices grabbing stuff.
Speaker 4:He probably was he probably was, I was a demon I was a demon.
Speaker 1:Hey, I'll say this about Chris to bring it back around. I loved hearing about his journey, though, from working with big companies to kind of going out on his own, Because I felt like it was very parallel. I've been in that same experience. I've worked for a lot of big companies. Now I'm out on my own and you definitely start to see things a little differently.
Speaker 1:But it's also inspirational, again, you're like back to the cool work that you want to do and I don't know. I love that, his journey that he went through, and now that he's at Fat Beats I can't wait to talk to him.
Speaker 4:I got lots of ideas I got lots of ideas about the storefront. He's going to do really well over there. He's going to do very well yeah. I mean he already is. He started off with Common and Pete Rock. I mean that's crazy. That's crazy. That's the first joint he did. So it's lit now. It's lit, yeah.
Speaker 1:That is great, that is unbelievable.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 1:All right, let's dive in. Enjoy our conversation with Chris Atlas. Unglossy is brought to you by Merrick Creative. Looking to skyrocket your business's visibility and drive growth All right, fellas, and unlock your brand's potential. Learn more at meritcreativecom. And now back to the show. All right, fellas. We are honored to be joined by a true leader in his field, whose expertise has shaped the career of numerous artists and transformed the landscape of music marketing. Our guest today is none other than Chris Atlas, a seasoned music industry executive with over two decades of experience. Three, chris has held key positions at major labels like Warner Records, def Jam, tommy Boy Records, cornerstone Promotion, and currently is the president of Fat Beats, a renowned distributor and retail brand in the music world. Chris has been instrumental in transforming the careers of numerous artists and has a wealth of knowledge about the ever-evolving music industry. Today, we'll be discussing his journey, the challenges and the opportunities in the music business, and his vision the future of Fat Beats. Welcome, how you doing.
Speaker 2:Man, I'm great.
Speaker 4:That was a dope intro, wasn't it?
Speaker 2:But you forgot the most important thing in my bio. Please tell me you know I'm a friend of Jeff Slash.
Speaker 4:Aw, this dude, that's my guy right there. I'm a friend of Jeff Slash, that's my guy right there.
Speaker 4:One of the only music people I really like Wow, that's big. I wanted to have Chris on here because he's one of the last people from my era that's inside Well, you're kind of outside now, but you're obviously really in the mix. He can also discuss inside out and he can also really discuss, like, the changes of the music business. But we're going to start with his journey. But I just think it's real important to have him on here because there's a lot of people that he can inspire and that he's helped out a lot along the way.
Speaker 1:So let's start there. Where does the love of music come from?
Speaker 2:Oh man, the love of music it. It actually comes from elementary school. High school. I used to DJ. I used to have my own rap group, which I don't talk about. What was the name?
Speaker 4:of the group. What was the name of the group Nah?
Speaker 2:come on chill the group.
Speaker 3:What was?
Speaker 4:the name of the group.
Speaker 2:But you know, listen, I think, like, I think, like most, you know most. You know young people from the bronx, you know we all had our aspirations, you know, uh, of either being an artist rapping you know performing right and you know I of either being an artist rapping you know performing Right, and you know I was no exception, right. And you know music has always been important in my family. Little known fact, my uncle, excuse me, my cousin by blood, is actually Mr Ness Scorpio from Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five.
Speaker 2:And you know, again, I think hip hop has always just kind of been rooted, you know, in me, just from, you know, adolescence. So, as I, you know, grew up and realized, you know what, I'm not going to be an artist. You know what I mean. I went to the business side, you know, and you know, fortunately it's a side that has led me on, you know, almost 30 plus year career of just growth, opportunity, hard work, hustle. You know, pain, strife, success, friendships, all of the above you know. All of the above, you know, but again, truly, truly blessed to work in music. And man, I think the stories and history that I have, you know, is kind of reflective of me still being here, so tell me a quick question because I don't know if you ever told me this how did you get the first job?
Speaker 2:Well, I had a period in college, right, and this was, uh, when I was at city college, where I had a few internships, and you know, I interned at emi, interned at, uh, giant records. But my real real break hey, remember that one right, my real real break was when I got the internship at Tommy Boy and that was 1995. And I was doing a compilation series called Jock Rock, jock Jams which at that time and Sledge, you remember this, like those compilations were like double platinum, yeah, mtv, party To Go, jock Rock, jock Jams. I remember those and it was like before streaming and before now and before. You know all of those things, right. So, um, those compilations were a big revenue, uh, driver for tommy boy, and but it for me it was like a way to get in the door.
Speaker 2:And once I was in the door, I just, you know, I went, went, went, went crazy relative to getting a position doing college radio promotion, which at that time, you know, in the mid 90s, college radio was like as big as mixed show radio and you know any rotation. So, and, tommy Boy, just given the nature of the label, college radio was very important. So that was like the thing that really kind of put me on the path and, you know, being that Tommy Boy, I kind of grew within within the ranks from college radio to make show radio to I did A&R at one point. At one point I had my own venture via Tommy Boy called Tommy Boy Black Label, which was an idea that I had came up with. Relative to there was a period where Tommy Boy was very mainstream and Tommy Boy Black Label was focused on independent, you know underground hip hop. So it was a way to kind of balance out the roster from the you know the mainstream acts that Tommy Boy had become famous for at that time.
Speaker 4:Who was on Black?
Speaker 2:What artists Da Far, Eye Jigmasters, Natural Elements, Self Scientific Gemini, the Gifted One, we were putting out singles. We put out singles and certain acts got to the level where we put out a couple albums. But we had quite a few acts Cover man, we had a few acts on Black.
Speaker 3:Label Shout out to A-Butter from Natural Elements.
Speaker 2:Yeah, shout out to those guys, they still doing their thing too. They're still doing their thing. And then, Jeff, that was around the time where we linked up, because of course, you was at Jive, yeah, yeah. And Tommy Boy and Jive. They were like rivals.
Speaker 4:Yeah, exactly, rivals, that kind of started around the same time and trying to poach people from each other and all that shit. Y'all had a dope staff though. You had Dante, you had you, you had Monica Lynch, you had Ian.
Speaker 2:You had a great staff over there, albie Ian, you had a great staff over there.
Speaker 4:Fat man School On the back of the source every month. Y'all was popular. You had great artists too Daylog, Tifa, Naughty.
Speaker 2:Daylog House of Pain. You know Coolio man Coolio was, you know was huge. You had Coolio. Yeah, man Coolio. Coolio was on Tommy Boy, you know.
Speaker 1:That's one of my all-time favorites right there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and then you know we had, you know, tommy Boy had some successful ventures via Penalty, and Neil Levine Definitely Nori Capone and Noriega Noriega, you know. So you know we definitely had a great run.
Speaker 4:You did your thing over there man. You definitely did your thing.
Speaker 2:What happened to Tommy it's like all things relative to the company was eventually absorbed and sold to Warner Music Group and they had that period where Warner had the catalog. There were certain acts that Warner kind of looked at relative to within the group Okay, who's going to Elektra, who's going to Atlantic or who's going where? You know what I mean and you know, like all things, I mean it had a great run. But you know at that time, which was when I left Tommy boy, I think it was like 2000, 2001, that you know the business was going through a change relative to Napster and what Napster was doing to the business. You know what I mean, jeff, you remember this.
Speaker 2:It wasn't a good period Because the piracy that was happening, just the indecisiveness relative to what commercial retail was going to look like, you know it just fold it into into warner music group and you know, luckily great to say, you know, tom silverman eventually did get tommy boy back. Um reservoir has tommy boy's catalog now. Thus, you know, daylight being able to kind of free themselves and get their music back up on streaming.
Speaker 2:so, you know, all in all, it turned out to be a happy ending, I think you know, relative to where the company was and how it started, to the long history, and just now, where it is relative to, I think they're doing a great job in terms of just kind of keeping the catalog and the legacy of Tommy Boy alive via Reservoir, and then those acts that have been able to get their, their music back are benefiting from it, and daylight is definitely, you know, one of those examples I always say, um, you know, do you know?
Speaker 4:I don't, I don't say none of us, but most of us didn't know at the time, like about technology to that level, like the. What the label should have done, in my opinion, with napster is, instead of trying to kill it, they should have put Sean Fannin on a plane and said, come in this office and explain what this shit is, and who knows what that would have turned into. But the fact that they tried to kill it, you know, cause all that chaos and you know it ended up being what music business is anyway. You know, I was just scared of him, so they were just like we got to sue this guy, get rid of this guy. He's giving our music away free instead of explaining what he was doing and how that could have, you know, benefited the labels, you know.
Speaker 3:Did he create MP3s?
Speaker 4:He created file sharing, which is basically MP3s.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, because I don't. You know, I was freshly graduated from high school and I remember temping at an agency called I guess they're still open PC Magazine and they were right on 28th Street and Park Avenue and they had a. You know, I was in the mailroom and they had a computer in there and I was introduced to Napster through them in the year 2000. And the file sharing like I had never seen anything like this before.
Speaker 3:And I'm guessing it had you know it was unbelievable, like all kind of audio was available to me at the snap of a finger, like freestyles that I had wanted. Songs, rare songs all of these things were available to me and you know I was in a company, so the downloading wasn't what you would experience if you did it at home.
Speaker 4:Yeah, slow.
Speaker 3:So it was really quickly, but I had never seen an MP3 before that Before that. So it was really quickly, but I had never seen an mp3 before that. Before that it was just cds or tapes but, it was really ces at that time, yeah yeah, so, would you say.
Speaker 1:Though that napster era right, that threw everybody into a loop. How does that compare to them? What's happening now with streaming and? Or is that comparable? I mean because it seems like it's the same kind of up in the air like how are artists really making money?
Speaker 2:Well, I mean again, I think Napster in that period, through labels in a loop, and again to Jeff's point, rather than embracing the technology, labels were trying to shut it down right, and it actually didn't stop piracy, it didn't stop bootlegging, it didn't stop, you know, any of the things that you know in hindsight. People were trying to get it to do. If anything, it just amplified it and other companies kind of popped up that were doing the same thing. So that created an, a period where there was a scramble. We got to figure this out. We got to figure out how to monetize in different ways, which ushered in other conversations, relative to 360 and just other aspects of strategic marketing and branding opportunities.
Speaker 2:Relative to how labels could, you know, help the bottom line but then also try to figure out other ways to, you know, make up for some of that revenue that was they were losing. Relative to just physical market you know deteriorating, you know, and you know, you see it or you saw it relative to the diminishing of the retail, the physical retail accounts both CD and vinyl stores, and I think the difference with it now and some of this may be to the hindsight of what Napster in that period was is that the, the ownership and the aspect that labels have relative to streaming and the partnership with streaming. You know um, from a label perspective kind of balances out some of the revenue, but when you think about the actual percentage of it relative to streaming it's minuscule compared to what the revenue was in terms of actually the physical sale. You know that. You know labels and artists were able to actually monetize against Right.
Speaker 2:So, I think the benefit part of the benefit again is like okay, we, we have the access, we have a way to actually, you know, uh, revitalize and keep music uh relevant and to the masses in volume. But the financial aspect of what that volume is still hasn't, you know, caught up to. You know where the heydays of the record business used to be.
Speaker 1:It's never going to go back right. I mean that you're never going to see that heyday ever again.
Speaker 2:No, no, no, you won't. I don't think you'll see that because, again, it's just, not only technology keeps evolving, but the volume of artists, you know it keeps accelerating, right. So, and with the volume of artists increasing, the shelf life per artist is decreasing. You know what I mean, because there's just so much content you know to absorb and you know, not to say, it was simpler times, it's just an easy way to put it right, but there weren't as many options relative to, uh, how we're vying for people's attention, right, there's so between music streaming platforms, content streaming platforms, digital streaming platforms I mean, it's all a matter of time, right, and we're vying for the attention of the consumer, where we're four guys, you know, on a on, on a zoom, right, and as much as we may want to consume everything you can't just be honest?
Speaker 3:we we can't you know what I mean.
Speaker 2:So not even close. It's not even close, right. So it's really comes down to like one your effectiveness in terms of how you can penetrate. You know, cut through right and, and you know, clear the noise if you will, so that you know you, you're, you know, at the head of the class if you will.
Speaker 1:So how has that happened that you've been in this industry for a long time, right? Your approach to marketing and getting artists out there has, I assume, dramatically changed from when you first started to debt today. Like, what, what's the evolution of that change? Like how are you breaking through?
Speaker 2:I mean my, my evolution as a marketer is always reflective of the climate and the market and utilizing the, the, uh, whether it's tech, whether it's the, the, the capabilities that I that are at my disposal Right, um, and I I feel, I feel like when it was the 90s, 2000s, right and Jeff can attest to this like it took us a minute to read a record right, because we had to talk to the DJs, we had to see how it resonated per market Talk to the retailers.
Speaker 2:You know, in some cases talk to the retailers, some cases go to the market. You know what I mean and see it. Versus now, with technology and the benefits of social media and streaming, and you can see it like that. You know what I mean, you can see it, you know much quicker.
Speaker 2:So how you utilize that, you know what I mean is important, right, but I think the one thing that's always been important for me is the level of quality with that artist or with that brand or you know, particularly just speaking on the artist side, right, the point of view, the perspective, you know, the quality and quality, again, is all relative to, and quality again is all relative to point of view, right, but in understanding that, understanding what the artist's voice is, who their audience is and who they're speaking to, right, and to me that's the measure of how you that are groundbreaking, critically acclaimed, right to artists that are SoundCloud hits or SoundCloud waves.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean. But the one thing that resonated was there was a clear perspective, there was a clear voice, right, and there was a clear consumer that those artists were speaking to and the level of success is all relative. Some did gold, some did platinum, some did multi-platinum right, but there was a level of what the music was, the, the, the perspective that the artist was, you know, trying to put out there in the marketplace, and then how we effectively marketed around that that's what I find harder today is like finding artists, like you said, that have that perspective and like genuinely have that perspective, as opposed to putting out shit because that's what they think is hot.
Speaker 4:It's like okay, I'm putting this out because this kind of sounds like little baby, this kind of sounds like gunner or whoever maybe, and this out because this kind of sounds like Lil Baby, this kind of sounds like Gunner or whoever it may be, and this will get me on, as opposed to like I'm putting out these. I'm making music because this is how I feel and this is what I'm trying to say. We have that conversation with artists nowadays, so what are you really trying to say with your music?
Speaker 2:They don't know they're like.
Speaker 4:I don't know.
Speaker 2:Must be hot.
Speaker 4:Must be hot, you, they don't know, I'm like bro, but the ones that rise above, like you said, whether it be any genre, whether it be Billie Eilish or Future or Anderson Pi, whoever it is, they all have a perspective that they have, and it's kind of like nobody else's perspective. It's their thing, and it's hard to get that across nowadays, like you said, so much content everybody's trying to get on.
Speaker 1:There's no gatekeepers.
Speaker 4:No more either. There's not many gatekeepers.
Speaker 1:Is that tough, though? When you think about marketing strategy, you've got to balance what the vision and what the artist is trying to do, but also what you know breaks through from a marketing perspective. How do you balance the two, because you might be way out here, but you're trying to market them in a way to have success. Is there a balance there, or how do you deal with that?
Speaker 2:I mean, I think part of that balance comes from the understanding between the artist and or the label in terms of what's our long-term goal with this right. And I think that if, whenever I speak to artists or labels or partners, I'm always like, listen, this is a marathon and not a sprint, Right, and you have to understand that from day one. And you may be in a situation where you get an overnight success and it's rocking, which most labels want that success, and it's rocking, which most labels want, that Most artists want that Right. But the reality of it is it takes time, right. It takes time, you know, to really even penetrate and have a level of success. You know that is of the volumes that is substantial. And even those artists where you think they will fly by night and where did they come from? They weren't really fly-by-night. You know what I mean. And there's a number of those SoundCloud artists and I use that genre in particular because we all know that was a period where it looked like where did these guys?
Speaker 2:come from and they were everywhere and it was explosive, but they were in their own underbelly right.
Speaker 2:And then, when that wave moved, it moved and everybody was on you know what I mean and to me, I think that's why you know you'll. We always have these conversations of, oh, hip-hop is dead and hip-hop is this, and I never feel like hip-hop is dead. I always feel like hip hip hop is always going to continue to evolve, right, because it evolves with the market, it evolves with the listeners, with the kids. You know what I mean. And it may be in a low right and, jeff, you can attest to this.
Speaker 2:We've always seen hip hop have periods of lows, right, but that's when the true artists that are about their creativity and their artistry have an opportunity to shine. And I almost feel like we're in that period now where it's almost like, ok, you know, streaming isn't what it, what it was for. You know a lot of hip hop acts, right, not saying there aren't success, you know, and there's big names out there, right, but just in general, right, and part of that, I think, is reflective of there's a creative evolution. You know that's that's happening Right, relative to whether there's a new sound that's going to emerge, whether there's an old school wave and movement that's happening and we're seeing a lot of. You know our OG and veteran acts, you know, dropping great product, you know, and you know putting the emphasis on artistry and I think that there's an awareness, you know, from the younger generation on that which I think will inspire. You know, whatever that next trend you know music is going to be.
Speaker 4:I agree, I agree, agree. I think, like you said, we've always seen lulz and you always got the hip-hop is dead people. But I think the hip-hop is dead people for the most part. They could, they um, stop evolving. And that's cool, because you know life happens. So you might be like I'm not moving past 2006, that was my era. You know, 50 cent in them niggas, and that's what I'm. I them niggas. That's it for me. So anything that comes after that is garbage. I don't like this young shit, I don't like these mumble rappers and you either keep going with it or you kind of just get off the train right there and you say it's dead. But it's because it's dead to you. But it's not dead, it's just dead to you. But people keep growing. Like you know, I spices like in five years people be like that's old now.
Speaker 1:It just keeps evolving, it keeps growing, it keeps evolving, you know, yeah, yeah you, you would say that you really think hip-hop is at a lull right now, like, okay, I guess there's two ways to look at that. There's the music side of it, but then there is just the general popularity. Like before we, you, before we started recording, we were talking about snoop at the olympics and I think hip-hop and some of the representatives of hip-hop are at an all-time high right now in terms of popularity, in terms of being on mainstream, mainstream channels. I mean, I think we're at an absolute height right now when you, when you look at it from that perspective not necessarily the music, the new music that's coming out- when I say low, I'm talking in terms of the artistry aspect of it, you know.
Speaker 2:The music the pure music side of it, the music aspect of it, not the popularity, you know, aspect of it, because I think that hip-hop is as popular as it can be and, to your point, right, there's several hip hop artists that are still on major brands and shows and tours and opportunities, right.
Speaker 2:But I think that when you look across the board, in terms of the footprint that hip hop sales is having in general, right, it's at a low, and I'm not talking about Drake and Kendrick and the superstars right, I'm, you know, because the superstars are superstars and they are always going to do what they do.
Speaker 2:I'm talking about the volume at which the a lot of the core and developing acts that used to dominate the chart had presence. That is at a lull, and I think that that's reflective of going from a single format to albums, going to what people are looking for relative to is it based on singles or is there a real album demand, you know? And also going back to how the creative and the narrative in terms of some of the hip hop artists, is going to continue to evolve, like, what's the next trend? I mean, I mean, if we had a crystal ball, you know what I mean We'd all be billionaires. Relative to what the next trend is in hip hop, I don't think anyone can kind of predict it until you actually see it and it emerges.
Speaker 4:Well I want to talk about. I'm going to swing back a bit more to the career stuff. So at the Tommy Boy you went to Cornerstone, correct? Yes, so what was that transition like? And tell us about Cornerstone, because it doesn't exist anymore. People might not know. And rest in peace to the founder of it, Rob Stone, who passed away fairly recently, but it was a very important thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, you know Cornerstone at that time and this was what late 2000, early 2001, when I actually went there, but it had started, you know, in the late 90s as a, you know, hip hop, r&b and alternative rock promotion company, because both Rob alternative rock promotion company, because both Rob and John Cohen, the founders of Cornerstone, that was their background, given Rob was big on the hip hop, r&b, radio promotion side and John on the alternative side. So at that time the company focused on, you know, independent, you know radio promotion, marketing and at that time, really building out a strategic, you know branding aspect of the company, which this is what? 20 years ago, a little more than that Strategic marketing in music and entertainment definitely wasn't as common, you know, as it is now, like it's an everyday thing now, but back then it was, it was new territory. And, you know, in addition to the radio marketing and promotion, the corporate branding and promotion, you know there were major, huge clients Sprite, xbox, coca-cola, boost, mobile where a big part of what we did at Cornerstone and while I was there, was actually bridging that gap between corporate marketing and music marketing and coming up with creative campaigns utilizing music artists.
Speaker 2:We created two opportunities. We created branding opportunities, sponsors of opportunities, product placement opportunities, all of those things. And then, within Cornerstone, uh, the Fader magazine was also born. So Fader is a sister, a sister company to Cornerstone, um, and again, I think, fader being one of those groundbreaking, you know, music, lifestyle and culture magazines of all genres, and Fader is still around and Cornerstone actually still around, it's just, it's just on a different scale than what it was, you know. And again, I think a lot of that was relative to just strategic branding, marketing, promotion that was part one of our conversation with Chris Atlas.
Speaker 1:Alright, folks, that's our show. Tune in to Unglossing the Coding Brand and Culture on Apple Podcasts, spotify or YouTube, and follow us on Instagram at UnglossyPod, to join the conversation. Until next time, I'm Tom Frank, I'm Jeffrey Sledge, or YouTube and follow us on Instagram at unglossypod to join the conversation Until next time.
Speaker 4:I'm Tom Frank. I'm Jeffrey Sledge.
Speaker 1:Smicky, that was good.
