Unglossy: Decoding Brand in Culture
Welcome to "Unglossy: Decoding Brand in Culture," where we delve into the essence of branding beyond the surface sheen. A brand is more than just a logo or a slogan; it's a reflection of identity, values, and reputation that resonates within our cultural landscape. Enjoy as we peel back the layers to uncover the raw, authentic stories behind the people and products that shape our world.
This isn't your average corporate podcast. Join Tom Frank, partner and chief creative officer at Merrick Creative, Mickey Factz, Hip Hop Artist and Founder and CEO of Pendulum Ink, and Jeffrey Sledge, a seasoned music industry veteran, for "Unglossy" as they get to the heart of what truly drives individual and organizational brand . In a world where where image is carefully curated and narratives meticulously crafted, we're here to explore the moments of vulnerability, pivotal decisions, and creative sparks that fuel the relationship between brand and culture.
Get ready for a thought-provoking journey into the heart and soul of branding – the unscripted, unfiltered, and truly Unglossy truth. Tune in to "Unglossy: Decoding Brand in Culture" on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube or wherever you catch your podcasts. Follow us on Instagram @UnglossyPod and join the conversation.
Unglossy is produced and distributed by Merrick Studios. Let your story take the mic. Learn more at https://merrick-studios.com
Unglossy: Decoding Brand in Culture
Jeff and Eric Rosenthal: Part 1 – From Kitchen Table to Documentaries
Join us (minus Mickey) as we navigate through technical mishaps and laugh-out-loud moments with our special guests, Eric and Jeff Rosenthal from It's The Real. From their kitchen table in Westchester County to collaborations with hip-hop legends, their journey is a testament to passion and perseverance. These brothers bring authenticity and humor, sharing their evolution from comedic sketch creators to serious documentarians.
Rewind to 2007: imagine producing weekly sketches on YouTube from a cramped kitchen, driven by a distant love for hip-hop. We'll take you through those early days, where financial struggles and odd jobs couldn't dampen the Rosenthal brothers' creative spirit. Highlighting a pivotal moment when Bun B reached out, we'll show how one opportunity can open doors to collaborations with industry giants like Cam'ron, Max B, and the Clipse. Their story underscores the importance of leveraging the internet to bypass traditional gatekeepers in the entertainment industry.
We also explore the meticulous, multi-year process behind their latest project, The Blog Era. Learn how the pandemic transformed their storytelling approach, propelling them from weekly content creators to long-term documentarians. Discover the significance of a giant bulletin board filled with clues and how Mickey's narrative became central to uncovering the intricate layers of the music industry. As we discuss potential future projects, get ready for an episode that celebrates the art of long-form storytelling, authenticity, and the transformative power of blogs in hip-hop culture.
"Unglossy: Decoding Brand in Culture," is produced and distributed by Merrick Creative and hosted by Merrick Chief Creative Officer, Tom Frank, hip hop artist and founder of Pendulum Ink, Mickey Factz, and music industry veteran, Jeffrey Sledge. Tune in to hear this thought-provoking discussion on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you catch your podcasts. Follow us on Instagram @UnglossyPod to join the conversation and support the show at https://unglossypod.buzzsprout.com/.
Welcome to the "All About M.E. Podcast ," the podcast where music meets the...
Listen on: Apple Podcasts Spotify
This week on Unglossy.
Speaker 2:This was way before I know we're going to sound like old heads here, but this is way before YouTube partnerships. This is way before you know sponsorships. This was straight out of our pockets. We have to pay rent, so we're taking, like you know, whatever Dumb jobs, Whatever temp jobs.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I was a magician's assistant. Yeah Off of yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, off of uh craigslist yeah, listen guys, you got to pay that rent right, yeah, from the top.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm tom frank, I'm mickey fax and I'm jeffrey sledge welcome to unglossy deconing brand and culture.
Speaker 1:I'm tom frank, partner and chief creative officer at merit creative. This is mickey fax, hip-hop artist and founder and ceo of pendulum inc. And that is is Jeffrey Sledge, a seasoned music industry veteran who has worked with some of the biggest artists in the business. We're here to explore the moments of vulnerability, pivotal decisions and creative sparks that fuel the relationship between brand and culture. Get ready for a thought-provoking journey into the heart and soul of branding the unscripted, unfiltered and truly unglossy truth. All right, folks, we're back for another episode. The unscripted, unfiltered and truly unglossy truth.
Speaker 3:And I'll just start with this I'll let you tell the story.
Speaker 1:I'll let you tell the story, but to me it's either your computer battery or it's Mickey's car battery. But nothing ever goes smooth here.
Speaker 4:I made sure I was like I cannot have any glitches with my computer. So I charged my shit up, like because I actually didn't charge last night, but I charged my shit up this morning. I was ready to go, but Mickey left his hazard lights on for some reason last night and his car is battery died?
Speaker 1:Who leaves their hazard?
Speaker 4:lights on. I don't know, I don't know and I didn't know I actually didn't know the hazard lights could kill your car, because I thought that actually went to like a separate thing. I didn't know, it was on a car battery. But anyway, his car is dead. He was going to get a jump. The people said they were going to come at like 1040, but then they couldn't come to like close to 12. And he has to go. He has a performance and he's participating in InvestFest, which is a big conference this weekend here in Atlanta, and so he couldn't make it. And, of course, his name was brought up a thousand times on this podcast.
Speaker 1:I mean the show must go on.
Speaker 4:The show got to go on because these guys are also very hard to catch. They're very hard to catch, so if we don't try to postpone it because we postponed it once already, they're busy guys, you know. So that's why I was like we got it. We got to go Cause we don't know when it'll happen again. It'll be, it'll be. We'll be wearing coats next time it happens again, you know. I mean, it's a good show, I was impressed.
Speaker 1:I was impressed for me scheduling these two guys and then, little do I know that you know them extremely well, Mickey knows them extremely well. Well, and these guys are awesome. We had Eric and Jeff Rosenthal.
Speaker 4:If people listening don't know it's.
Speaker 1:The Real, then you're going to learn all about it because it's the real deal. I love these guys.
Speaker 4:I love them and that's why I wanted to do it anyway, because my relationship with them is so tight. I knew I could carry it even if Mickey wasn't here, because of my relationship with the guys. Um, you know, mr Mickey, and I know he, he's mad, sad, as we say that he couldn't make it, but, um, it's a great show we took. We cover the blog error, we cover their podcast. Uh, we tell stories some funny. Um, it was just a great, great episode. It's a great episode.
Speaker 1:It was a good episode. I laughed. I laughed a lot at this one, yeah, and we could have talked to these guys for probably another four or five hours Easily.
Speaker 4:Easily. There's a lot of stuff I didn't even bring up because we didn't have the time, but yeah, it was a great episode.
Speaker 1:I mean with that, I think we just dive right in. Sorry Mickey, let I mean with that, I think we just dive right in Sorry Mickey, let's go, we'll catch you next show. But here we go with Eric and Jeff Rosenthal. Unglossy is brought to you by Merrick Creative, looking to skyrocket your business's visibility and drive growth. At Merrick Creative, we solve your brand and marketing woes With big ideas, decades of experience and innovative solutions. We'll draw in your target audience and keep them hooked. Remember, creativity is key to success. Partner with Merit Creative and unlock your brand's potential. Learn more at meritcreativecom. And now back to the show. Today we got not one, but we got two guests that apparently we all know. They are the creative minds behind it's the Real.
Speaker 1:These brothers from Harrison, new York, have made a name for themselves in the entertainment industry with their sharp humor and deep passion for music and culture. Starting with weekly sketches in 2007, they quickly gained attention for their humorous and insightful takes on the hip-hop scene. Their podcast, a Waste of Time with it's the Real, featured candid conversations with some of the biggest names in entertainment. Most recently, eric and Jeff launched the blog era. Very good, and we're going to get into that. A deep dive into the transformative period of hip hop industry, exploring how the rise of blogs changed the music industry forever. Despite their success, they remain grounded and authentic, always pushing the boundaries of comedy and entertainment. Let's dive in to the unique journey and the impact of it's the real. Please welcome eric and jeff rosenthal, hey hey, good to be here.
Speaker 4:Thanks for having us guys wait. How often do y'all be interviewed, uh?
Speaker 2:here and there. Yeah, you know I. I think that like podcasting is like a wild thing where it's like everyone who's got a mic is now like interviewing. So it that's exactly who we are.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, we're people with a mic.
Speaker 2:But, like, but it is this thing where it's just like, you know, we could be on one side of the interview spectrum, we could also be on the other. So it's all good, it's just a conversation and, like, this is an easy conversation for us because, like you guys are, just you know, like this whole thing is going to be a lot of fun. We're ready for it and uh, it'll just be back and forth and we're we're excited to be here wait one more.
Speaker 4:One more question is that the same apartment? It looks no, yeah, no, that's a different apartment and I was this is a different apartment than you were here yeah yeah yeah, so jeff was on our uh podcast.
Speaker 3:A waste of time with it's the real. When you were talking about big names, jeff Sledge is one of those big names. That's right, yeah, and.
Speaker 2:Jeff came over to our last apartment where we sat at our kitchen table in our kitchen, which was like you could stand there and reach both of your arms out and touch both the walls right out and touch both the walls Right. So, uh, we are grateful that Jeff would sit there with us for, you know, two hours in our kitchen and have, honestly, a conversation that still carries on to this day Like there's clips that you'll see go viral like every other week that Jeff is a part of, and it's just it.
Speaker 2:that's such a blessing and we're really, really grateful for that.
Speaker 4:So thank you, jeff blessing, and we're really really grateful for that. So thank you, yeah. Yeah, that was a. That was a fun time, that was a great podcast. I had a good time on that day, had a good time, but anyway, let's move forward, because tom's feeling left out I mean, no, I, you know, every day I learn more about the mysterious.
Speaker 1:But hey, I want to. I want to start. I want to start from the early days, because I'm amazed by you guys, like I mean, how did this? You know, we all look at you today and we're like, oh, these guys always had it. It was easy, they've done it all. But I'm sure it wasn't Like how did you even get into this? How did it start? Did you just always know this is the path you were taking? No, did you go off on other paths and end up here Life.
Speaker 2:Life is not a straight line, right, so we're originally from Westchester County 914, 914.
Speaker 2:Which is about 30 minutes north of New York and just actually a town over from where Jeff grew up. And you know, we were outsiders, right, we were guys who loved hip hop. We listened to Hot 97. We read XXL Magazine, we watched BET, but, like, hip hop was at a remove. It was like an arm's length away, right, we would never, ever meet our musical heroes, right, or the people behind the scenes who made these, these machines go. So we were just fans. We, we love this thing from afar. Um, you know, we, we grew up listening to uh, bad boy and rough riders and Rockefeller, and that was who we were. But again, we're two white Jewish kids from 30 Minutes outside of New York who love this thing.
Speaker 2:So I thought I was going to be a feature film writer and director. Jeff thought he was going to write for magazines. You take those tools and you develop some things on your own and we were making fun little sketches with our friends. And then when we tried to make that into a TV show and knock down people's doors and it didn't sell, we were like, why not do it ourselves? So that's where, at the advent of YouTube and Vimeo, we were like, let's treat this like a real thing, put ourselves sort of in a position to include our voice, and in August of 2007, the two of us started putting out weekly sketches that we did for the next three and a half years, yeah, and, like you know, we would do it every single Monday.
Speaker 3:And it became this thing where and it's probably because like there wasn't that much stuff on the internet at that point, but like we were doing original content at a time when nobody else was, and so you know, we got people like the Clips or Max B or Cameron or whoever else. I mean like everybody would just come over to our apartment and and shoot videos with us and, um, and those went very viral but the thing was this was way before.
Speaker 2:I know we're gonna sound like old heads here, but this is way before youtube partnerships. This is way before you know sponsorships. This was straight out of our pockets. We have to pay rent so we're taking, like you know, dumb jobs, whatever temp jobs yeah, I was a magician's assistant off of uh yeah yeah, off of uh craigslist, yeah listen guys, you gotta pay that rent right
Speaker 2:yeah and when you, when you couldn't pay for subway fare, you gotta walk right. When you can't, you know, have every meal, you skip meals, right. But if you love something, if you really want to like earn your way in you, you make those sacrifices and that's that's what we did. Now, jeff was there when Bun B called us and wanted to be in one of our sketches. That's when we first met Jeff, right.
Speaker 1:How, how did? How did you jump though from I mean that's a huge jump from doing the videos with your buddies to Bun B calling you Totally? How does that even?
Speaker 2:happen. So that is the blogs, right. So we come from a world in which there's traditional gatekeepers, right, you want to have a TV show, you've got to go through certain levels and certain steps up the ladder to get there. But we weren't. You know, we came along at a time where it was like you know what? We want to go directly to the people that make the decisions. So we would email those people, right, we would get those meetings. But for people to understand that that's a different story. So that's why we had to do a proof of concept. That's why we used YouTube, that's why we put out these videos.
Speaker 2:Bun, who throughout our career has been such an advocate for us and such a great partner for us, and his co-sign. As all of us here know, if Bunn does something, the rest of the industry is going to pay attention and follow, because Bunn is always early. Yeah, talking to Theda Sandiford, you know her passing along our number. Bun calling us at 8 o'clock on a random Wednesday morning and saying I want to be a part of one of these sketches. That is the reason why you know Cameron and Max B and Nick Cannon and the Clips and everybody else.
Speaker 3:Yeah, all these people were then on the show, but yeah, bun was the first and that was like early on.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it does. But, like you know, again, like jeff was saying, we were doing something different, right, if we were doing the same thing as everyone else online, then it's like, well, why would I want to do that, right?
Speaker 3:yeah, correct so, like you know, this is before twitter, this is before, like people were able to, rappers were seen through their music primarily, and so we were the maybe first ones who were like, hey, like we've an outlet where rappers can be funny, you know.
Speaker 1:And you came on at a time where right YouTube was just starting to. Really people really didn't know what they were doing, so you got on the scene kind of early, I'm sure.
Speaker 2:Correct, and so there's that. But there's also the platform that matters, right? So YouTube, you know, was not this place where people would go and spend their whole days just going through videos. You had to go to a website where you had somebody who curated this stuff, website where you had somebody who curated this stuff.
Speaker 2:So, luckily, there were a bunch of websites called blogs, which were places where different people and you didn't have to know them in real life, they could exist in any city around the world where they chose what rap songs they wanted to put on their websites, what artists they wanted to promote, and then, by the time we came around, what content they wanted to shine a light on, the time we came around, what content they wanted to shine a light on.
Speaker 2:And so, because we were doing videos with Bun, with Cam, with the clips, whoever it was those cut through, they were different, they were available and, thankfully to people like SK from Now Right or Miss Info from MissInfo TVtv, or two dope boys or whoever it was, we were then right next to, you know, the, the new jay-z song that dropped, the new naz song that dropped, the new ludicrous song that, like you know, was being teased like that mattered and all of a sudden, those outsiders, the two of us, were suddenly seen as something maybe bigger than the reality was. So by the time that we're going to like actual events downtown, uptown, in Brooklyn, wherever it was people would see us and be like I know you from the internet. You're actually real.
Speaker 4:Like this.
Speaker 2:This is crazy, and that's. That's how sort of, like you know, our reputation grew.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, blogs, blogs.
Speaker 1:Well, that leads me into and I know we're jumping all around here but the blog era. Then I didn't know the like, so I've listened to the blog era. I think it's absolutely fantastic. I got introduced to the first time I met you guys. I didn't know how deep though this went with you. I mean, in theory, this is your own story as much as it is every story of that era.
Speaker 2:Correct, yeah, so yeah, I think that it's recent history. Right, we're talking. 2007 is the starting point, let's say the blog era. Its peak, let's say it sort of like trails off after 2012. A lot of people can look back and be like, oh well, why would I want to hear something about a time that was so recent? You know, like Kendrick J Cole, drake, they're all of the blog era. They're still at the top of the chart, so why would I want to look at something or listen to something?
Speaker 2:With that context, we were able to create a project that gave it a perspective that was way bigger and maybe way more interesting than people gave it credit for. Because a lot of people look, they're like hip hop with the golden era that's what I think of hip hop or like let's go back to, like the early 80s and like the mid 80s and like that's the hip hop that I can look at in perspective and with context and see that. And we were like, well, let's talk about this very important transitional time where all these major artists came out of and you're right, we're also of that time like we ran around with Wale and Wiz Khalifa and Currency back then. Right, like you know New York City, the Lower East Side, that was a breeding ground for a brand new type of creator, and so we are absolutely a part of that. But our story, you're right is right there, with the Peter Rosenbergs, with the internet celebrities.
Speaker 3:Jay.
Speaker 2:Smooth, like all these guys who would break through in different ways on MSNBC or in the New York Times Deezus and Merrow. Those guys are all our contemporaries. We've all gained something by being on the blogs and, you know, the blog era is very important to us and when it came to looking at it, I think that we wanted to not put ourselves at the center of the story because we wanted to, you know, take people through it but at the same time, include ourselves, because we did make a mark and because our work does last, and we wanted to show that outside voices, even if we were just 30 minutes up the road, those outside voices could become insiders, could be in the circus, understand this thing, speak the language, and I think we're very grateful that the project came out, included so many voices and lives on, you know.
Speaker 1:I mean it's amazing. It's amazing how many voices were involved and it's funny you say it doesn't seem like it's that long ago, but in terms of just where technology is, things are promoted, it does feel like a long time ago that we listened to like blogs. Were that that focus? Because it's changed so rapidly, like it's, it's right.
Speaker 3:I mean it's completely different today than it was just 10 years yeah, and I think that's like one of the uh things that we wanted to deal with. Right, like, this is a story that people always talk about the blog era, especially like on um, on Twitter, or just like you know, there's people of a certain nature like, oh, like that was, that was my time, you know. But, yeah, there's so few people who understand why any of the things happened the way they did. Um, they didn't, they didn't understand the process, they didn't understand the characters who were involved, and so, like that's sort of the the world that we were dealing with, you know yeah, it was.
Speaker 4:It was that the time was interesting. I mean you had to. I mean, for me I was. The blogs were the first thing I looked at in the morning when I got to the office, like you kind of go through to see if anything anybody put anything out as a new video or a sketch, a new sketch or new skit or whatever. It wasn't even just about the music per se, but it was about that, that culture and that how that culture was moving. It kind of you know and thinking about it, it kind of you know.
Speaker 4:In the early 80s I guess, you had the collision of, uh, punk and obviously early hip hop and fashion. You know where Madonna came out of and Basquiat came out of and you know that those people you know, keith Haring and you know and obviously all the rappers you know, and they were all going downtown. Same thing, fat Pie, freddy, they were going downtown and they were connecting in these art galleries and dance interior and these clubs and stuff, and this was the same thing. But I don't think anybody realized what was happening. People were going, like you said, lower East Side. It was fashion guys in there, obviously it was hip-hop guys in there, it was journalists in there, there were big-time photographers, and we would all be in these spaces, spaces just kind of hanging out and not even knowing what's coming next. We didn't know what the fuck was coming next, we didn't know we could make it a career, we didn't know if it would be here next week even, but it was just something that we loved and we all kind of connected to it. Like I said, from big people like Cuddy, who was, you know, working at Bape and became this international superstar, you guys, just all these people just kind of hanging out, people working at 10 Deep and people working at Supreme and people working at BBC, and it's interesting to see where it's grown to.
Speaker 4:And I'm glad you guys did the blog everything because it needed to be documented, because it was almost like this big movement. To me it was as big a movement as like the late 60s, you know, with their thing and rock and roll and you know hate, hate, asperger and all that stuff and, like I said, then the early 80s, when you know madonna and all that kind of thing and this was this is exactly the same thing and a lot of the people who are the trendsetters and the tastemakers of today come from that. You know the next. Let me just say this one thing.
Speaker 4:The next thing I and I don't know if there's enough footage I want somebody to do a history on fashion um in the 2000s, because that was the same thing where, asap rocking, you go downtown below houston, right below house on a Saturday and it would be so many kids it would be just kids all over the street comparing fashion and hanging out and Virgil and all these people I want somebody to kind of I hope somebody has enough footage to kind of do that. But back to you guys. I'm glad you guys were able to talk to me.
Speaker 1:There's your next project right there, so that was an idea, by the way.
Speaker 4:Because if you went, down on the Saturday it was real?
Speaker 3:Yeah, there was supposed to be. That's one of the things that we were going to include in the blog era podcast. And then we were like, oh, maybe that's like a second season. But we felt like the story of fashion, it would have the same sort of up and down trajectory as the, as the first season. And so we're like we don't, we don't want to just replicate it, but it is. And also, somebody should tell that story.
Speaker 2:It's an incredible, incredible story.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we.
Speaker 2:I spoke to Scott from 10 deep about his story and it's just like somebody should help him tell that it's a very dynamic and interesting epic story, yeah, but in terms of the story that we ended up telling for the Blog Era podcast, it is the story that is about music and technology coming together. There is that intersection and that does matter. But, like the, the really deeper stories are about race and class and the American dream, both realized and snatched away. Because these are things that always come around. There's always this wheel, right when it's like, you have the people who are the gatekeepers, then you have the people who disrupt things gatekeepers, then you have the people who disrupt things. Then eventually and this always happens the disruptors become the new gatekeepers. Yep, and, and the wheel continues.
Speaker 2:But what makes the blog area interesting is, by the time, that odd future comes around and they can't get the attention of the bloggers, they, they shoot out. You know, beyond the cycle. Right, they're like off because they, they could just distribute everything themselves, they could get the word out on social media, they can go directly. They don't need a middleman anymore. They didn't need them to go directly to their fans. Yeah, and so, because it's thrown off and you have a sound cloud, you know, coming out and you have, like all these other opportunities to get around traditional gatekeepers, all of a sudden, the, the playing field is just spread all the way out, and so that's what makes this thing interesting. Where it's like, oh, you can't have like the buildings, take back control, but all of a sudden they can't get control of what these kids are doing, right, they're trying to keep up what's up.
Speaker 4:Okay. So what? The was it the wag, the wag the dog. It reversed around.
Speaker 1:The tail was wagging the dog, absolutely so I want to know more about the production of this, right? I mean, this was a massive project. This didn't happen overnight, right? If I remember correctly, this was like a three year three year project right or maybe more.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so it started in 2020, during the pandemic. So we were inside. We had no idea what was going on. Like you guys remember, like there were times when it was like, and it's hard to believe now, right Now, that we've sort of come out the other side. It is very hard to believe that there was a time, like, where we didn't know how this thing was moving. We didn't know, like we we have a third brother. We would not let him come into our home right, he's still mad about that, by the way because we were just like I don't know who you're around, like I don't know how you're gonna spread this band?
Speaker 3:he's like nobody yeah and so he's like I just want to use your laundry room.
Speaker 2:We're like no, yeah, so so what happened was we were like jeff. Jeff wanted to tell a story we had done. We had done a, a weekly podcast for five years, right, the same one that that jeff was on, the same one that, like every, ross and cardi b was on, right, yeah, but like we couldn't then invite strangers over to our apartment in in good faith, right, like we didn't know if we would spread something, they would spread something. You can't. You have an airborne disease.
Speaker 3:It's probably not great to have an artist the Migos and their 30 people come over.
Speaker 2:So what that meant for us was let's try to tackle storytelling in a different way. Now I just want to say, if people are listening and they're like, wait, how did the guys do sketches and then end up in this place, where they're taken seriously as like documentarians, it is. It is this thing where it's like look, we have the tools, we're just using them in a different way, cause we're the same guys. We've always been. It's the real. We've always been like openly, like these funny guys who are good storytellers, whether in our, our sketches, our music, our, uh, like absurdist interviews with people like Stevie wonder or, uh, the television show that we wrote that was not made, unfortunately, but all these things the same thing that that ties all these things together is that we're we're talented storytellers. So this was just storytelling in a different fashion, which is what Jeff wanted to do.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I mean like. So what happened was that Rick Ross's team had reached out to us to do an anniversary episode of Teflon Don and so we did an oral history based off. We were like, oh, we know a lot of people who were involved in that album. We talked to probably like 10 people and we put it out and like it was just a, it was so we'd been doing weekly content for so long and then, during the top of the pandemic, we were doing daily content and to do this thing that was more focused on like a long-term, like it was. It was edited, it was produced, it was, um, thought out as opposed to like a casual conversation or, uh, you know, uh, an interview talking about somebody's life. We were just like, oh, this is so different and it flexes different muscles, and when we we took a break for a week to like figure out our next move, because we've been doing daily podcasting for three months yeah.
Speaker 3:And we were just exhausted. We were like, oh, we need a break to to just figure shit out. Um, and then, day one, we thought, oh, like, let's tell the story let's tell the story of the blog and we also.
Speaker 2:We wanted to be the ones to tell it because we lived it yeah right, we didn't want like an outsider, like, and that's why it worked honestly I mean you're so integrated as part of it that that's to me the magic of it.
Speaker 2:Well, so we have the access. Because of that, right, like we, we can and we can make the phone calls and that's what we did. So this was a process. We were like, oh, this will take two months and we'll, we'll put it out on the same feed as a waste of time and we'll, you know, just continue this thing when all of this, like you know, settles out. But it just kept going and it got deeper and deeper. You know, we call Jeff because Jeff's our friend, right, but there were things in there where Jeff was just like, oh, how about this thing? And it would send us in a new direction where we hadn't even thought of that before. Like, could this story have just been very surface level? For sure. But Jeff is like, hey, by the way, you know, here's my experience with you know, here's my experience with you, know the end of jive and like what battery was and how mickey fax settles into this thing. And then you take it a step further and then you talk to mickey about his experience, right, but like everyone knows mickey fax from you know certain songs that he had, certain magazine covers he had. But the deeper you get into it, you learn about his parents, you learn about his parents, you learn about his high school, you learn about all these things and that becomes a story, or you? You think of things in new ways.
Speaker 2:We spoke to 150 people. We had 500 hours of brand new recordings, um to. And then you know what? Uh, we had a Patreon, and there were our most hardcore fans contributed to us and allowed us to have this extended break away from regular content.
Speaker 2:No one knew what we were doing. We didn't put our business out there. Of the 150 people that we spoke to on the record, no one spoiled this. No one tweeted out, said what we were up to and that allowed us this space to, to work on this thing for, like you said, three years. And we didn't, honestly, we didn't think about business.
Speaker 2:You know, we weren't like, for the first two years, we we weren't like, oh, who's gonna put this out there? How much money we're gonna? It wasn't that, it was just let's concentrate on the art again. We had, you know, patreon, patreon and our people were letting us do this and they were on the inside, so they understood. You know what we were working on, how we were doing, giving them regular updates and all that stuff, and it did take three years.
Speaker 2:In the third year, that is when we started having conversations being like, well you know, is this an Amazon project? Is this a Spotify project? Is this a Warner music project? And it wasn't any of those. We ended up partnering with Pharrell um, and that made sense on a number of levels, including the fact that he's the godfather to this whole scene. You don't get a drake or a kendrick or a j cole or a wale or wiz khalifa or any of these people, without pharrell going out there and being his authentic self, his boundary pushing self, and so to have him as a partner in this was extremely important to us, and they were a first time podcast company. Other times.
Speaker 1:They were brand new at that point. Brand new, yeah, brand new.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and and and but it. It really was very meaningful to us to do something with him and for him to be a great partner with us in presenting this project.
Speaker 3:Yeah, shouts to everybody over at Other Tone.
Speaker 4:Yeah, before we move forward, I feel like we're skipping past the podcast. We talked about it.
Speaker 1:We did. We're going to get back to that.
Speaker 4:We're going to get back to that Okay, Because it meant a lot more. It was way deeper than just like oh, we did a little podcast, so I don't want to skip past that.
Speaker 1:But we'll get back to it. Okay, we will get back to that. I want to ask two more questions, though, because the thing about Pharrell was I was working with him at that time too, and that's when I ended up running into you guys. It was like amazing Cause. I was like wait a minute, this is the thing I heard about a year ago. And here it is live and it's out there in the world right now, and it is fascinating and it's funny how the pandemic really started this, because in a lot of ways, I'm sitting here today because of the pandemic.
Speaker 1:I mean, during the pandemic is when we rolled out the Lupe and Roy show and we got really deep into that and I really started to understand how deep this culture goes. I was like you guys, I was a fan, but I didn't know any of these guys. I had no experience, and once I started to get into that, you realize this goes really deep, and the connection and how many people and how people are connected is fascinating to me. And that's what really amazed me about what you guys did was every episode became a story upon itself and it was fascinating and I kept learning and it really connected the dots for me because I was like, wow, I had no idea this guy was involved with this, that connected to this, which connected to that, and it was amazing, thank, you.
Speaker 2:So I'll tell you what three years allowed us to do. We obviously lived together, we worked together. We had a giant six foot by four foot bulletin board and we just kept staring at this thing for three years. We kept organizing.
Speaker 1:It looked like a crime scene with all the red yeah it honestly did.
Speaker 2:It looked like you know a very messy thing that we could understand. You know, it's like those people who, like their clothes, are all over the room but they know exactly where everything is. That that's us.
Speaker 3:But it's also like because it's a little bit like a 2001 space odyssey, but it's also like like this monolith from like planet of the apes. Eric and I would just be staring at this thing like just like you know, basking in, like the the power, trying to figure it out for, like I don't know, hours at a time.
Speaker 2:But because of that, and the long walks that we would take and the the conversations that we would have, we were able to figure this thing out and connect dots that maybe, like you, would not have known, maybe someone else who was like running a blog would not have known, but also, like that we, as observers and participants in, could never have known. So we're grateful for taking the time and really, like, not following some sort of like arbitrary deadline, not just, you know, uh, settling we, we never settled. You know, we kept digging and digging and we found answers that were extremely meaningful and if you listen to the project, um, stand up yeah, I mean like we were trying to answer very big questions, you know, like, why did this thing happen?
Speaker 3:Why is it no longer here? And you know none of this stuff had ever been really like reported or talked about. And you know none of this stuff, a lot of the websites that we were that were so important a decade and a half ago are no longer here. Their archives are, you know, inaccessible or like broken or like the ways that we uh used to um, experience the internet, that that's just not possible anymore. And so it took a lot of reporting and digging and clicking on links that went nowhere and and um, and so I'm, you know, had we not taken three years, it would have been. Had we had we only done the two month thing, it would have been a very different, um, more surface level thing, and by the way we would call jeff up and we would be like yo, so we just found this out.
Speaker 2:What do you think about this? Or, you know, we like we'd be like jeff, where were you when you first heard about soldier boy and and so like that would unlock something in the back of jeff's head and he'd be like wait, hold on. He talked like he did a song about, like his, his, like bathing or whatever right and and and remember, he's still living in Mississippi.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and, like that, sent us on a, on a whole nother thing, or we'd be like, tell us about Lil B or like all this stuff that you know I think a lot of people either forgot about or take for granted. And because of the discussions that we had with Jeff, with Plain Pat, with uh SK, with um whiz, with big Sean, with, you know, sav and Steve-O, whoever it was you know you get this perspective that a lot of people again just take for granted and have forgotten about. Now it's, it's in a historical record and people can go back and hear from the actual people who lived it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, just one last thing, which is that Mickey was so accessible to us and we just kept going deeper and deeper and deeper into his story. And it's interesting because originally I think that Mickey was going to play a fairly minor role in the podcast, like we, he was not a an immediate main character for us, but the more that we understood his story and, like, understood his arc, we started to see how important a role he could play in our podcast, um, as somebody who had sort of skipped the line, been signed to a label, um, and then, where the label didn't really understand the internet at the same pace, um, where that left him, and so, and also just like the idea of of redefining success on your own terms, and just um, there was a lot more to his story than I think that we first realized mickey, who is always with us on these podcasts I won't get into his story today.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he had a little issue that today, so but he might we are going to dive deep into mickey's uh backstory at some point, because I think a lot of our listeners don't know the full story um of mickey fax, and it is. It is a fascinating one and certainly jeffrey here, who is a wealth of knowledge right here in front of me. But all right, jeffrey, I'm asked one more question, then we'll go backwards. But is the? Is there a? Next, is this, is this a? Is this a thing that will exist by itself, or will there be a number, another part of it? Will there be a part two?
Speaker 3:yeah, I think that we are working on a, a, not a part two, but we are working on another thing in that universe, um, and so we are in the process of uh, of selling it and making it, and and uh doing all of that.
Speaker 2:But I think, I think, what we're uh, we're excited about is the fact that to have we spent 15 years doing weekly content. Everyone knew what we were up to all the time. To have dedicated such a long time to one project was certainly new for us and it was received so well. I think we were very excited about that type of storytelling and that has opened up new opportunities for us to continue to do that. Um, you know, in addition, we still have stuff that we do, um, on a semi-regular basis. That is, that is out there. Like we have a podcast with the locks on a semi-regular basis. That is out there.
Speaker 3:Like we have a podcast with the locks, who are again 9-1-4 guys, westchester guys who speak the same language, Although, by the way, Jada changes the number to a 9-1-7 number, so I mean, like I don't know if we're that's whack.
Speaker 4:That's whack. It is whack it is whack, but we're.
Speaker 2:You know we have a podcast that we do with them called two Jews and two black dudes review the movies. That's a very fun. You know, hang. You know it's a. It's a fun idea and that is something that like. If people miss the conversational stuff that we do, that's where you can go get that. We did a new episode based around their Tiny Desk episode. That came out recently. But, to answer your question more specifically, we are working on a project that I think is similar in storytelling to the blog.
Speaker 3:Well, especially because the blog era is such a rich time, it's so big, and the podcast that we did Pause, pause, pause, and like the podcast that we did, while the podcast that we did is so dynamic and and it contains a lot of stories, like it's just one way of doing it and so there's, there's more, there's more on the way to cover yeah. But like we're not going to be like the sound cloud guys, we're not going to be the what's the next era guys, you know that's not, that's not our thing.
Speaker 1:That was part one of our conversation with Eric and Jeff Rosenthal. Don't miss part two. All right, folks, that's our show. Tune in to Unglossing decoding brand and culture on Apple podcasts, Spotify or YouTube, and follow us on Instagram at unglossy pod, to join the conversation. Until next time, I'm Tom Frank.
Speaker 4:I'm Tom Frank. I'm Jeffrey.
Speaker 1:Sledge Smicky, that was good.
