Unglossy: Decoding Brand in Culture
Welcome to "Unglossy: Decoding Brand in Culture," where we delve into the essence of branding beyond the surface sheen. A brand is more than just a logo or a slogan; it's a reflection of identity, values, and reputation that resonates within our cultural landscape. Enjoy as we peel back the layers to uncover the raw, authentic stories behind the people and products that shape our world.
This isn't your average corporate podcast. Join Tom Frank, partner and chief creative officer at Merrick Creative, Mickey Factz, Hip Hop Artist and Founder and CEO of Pendulum Ink, and Jeffrey Sledge, a seasoned music industry veteran, for "Unglossy" as they get to the heart of what truly drives individual and organizational brand . In a world where where image is carefully curated and narratives meticulously crafted, we're here to explore the moments of vulnerability, pivotal decisions, and creative sparks that fuel the relationship between brand and culture.
Get ready for a thought-provoking journey into the heart and soul of branding – the unscripted, unfiltered, and truly Unglossy truth. Tune in to "Unglossy: Decoding Brand in Culture" on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube or wherever you catch your podcasts. Follow us on Instagram @UnglossyPod and join the conversation.
Unglossy is produced and distributed by Merrick Studios. Let your story take the mic. Learn more at https://merrick-studios.com
Unglossy: Decoding Brand in Culture
Backstory: The Origins of Unglossy with Mickey, Jeffrey and Tom
How did a CCO, a music industry veteran, and a hip-hop artist come together to explore the intersection of branding and culture? In this episode, discover the invisible thread that connects hosts Tom Frank, Jeffrey Sledge, and Mickey Factz, forming the foundation of Unglossy.
First, we dive into Jeffrey Sledge’s remarkable career. Known as one of "Hip-Hop’s Most Impactful Black Music Executive," Jeffrey recounts his transformative years at Jive Records, where his broadened perspective beyond New York artists, helped diversify his reach across the country. Hear how Jeffrey scouts talent, nurtures emerging artists, and makes bold moves—like recognizing the potential in the viral hit "Stanky Leg" and helping Shaquille O'Neal transition from the basketball court to the music studio.
Mickey shares his own perspective, detailing his initial encounter with Jeffrey and reflecting on his experiences touring with Nas and crossing paths with Lupe Fiasco while working as an editor for Laced Magazine. Although Mickey eventually signed with Jeffrey, the experience was far from the Hollywood depiction.
Tom adds his story, recounting a pivotal assignment that brought him face-to-face with Lupe Fiasco at SXSW. The encounter sparked a long-lasting creative partnership and led to Tom working with Lupe as the creator, producer, and co-host of the popular Lupe and Royce podcast. The show facilitated deep discussions on everything from music to social issues and laid the groundwork for the formation of Unglossy.
Tune in to hear the journey that brought these three hosts together, the surprising connections, and their favorite episodes to date.
"Unglossy: Decoding Brand in Culture," is produced and distributed by Merrick Creative and hosted by Merrick Chief Creative Officer, Tom Frank, hip hop artist and founder of Pendulum Ink, Mickey Factz, and music industry veteran, Jeffrey Sledge. Tune in to hear this thought-provoking discussion on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you catch your podcasts. Follow us on Instagram @UnglossyPod to join the conversation and support the show at https://unglossypod.buzzsprout.com/.
All About M.E. PODCAST
Welcome to the "All About M.E. Podcast ," the podcast where music meets the...
Listen on: Apple Podcasts Spotify
This week on Unglassy. This podcast came to birth. A I love working with you, yes. B I wanted to find a way to work with Jeffrey Right. But C I had just bought a company and my mission in life was to take this company and completely rethink how its perception of this company lives in the world, not because they had done anything wrong, but just because I wanted to change the perception Right, and I wanted to be able to talk about brand and marketing, not with brand and marketing people and what was expected, but talk to people about brand and marketing who don't even think of themselves in branding marketing. And I think the biggest space to do that in a lot of cases and it's not solely what we're doing here, but a big part of that is the music industry, because the music industry tends to be on the forefront of culture.
Speaker 1:Yes On the forefront of what brands are doing, and a lot of brands come to music to try to figure out what's next, to try to brand themselves. From the top. Yeah, I'm Tom Frank.
Speaker 3:I'm Mickey Fax.
Speaker 2:And I'm Jeffrey Sledge.
Speaker 1:Welcome to Unglossy decoding brand and culture. I'm Tom Frank, partner and Chief Creative Officer at Merit Creative. This is Mickey Fax, hip-hop artist and founder and CEO of Pendulum Inc. And that is Jeffrey Sledge, a seasoned music industry veteran who has worked with some of the biggest artists in the business. We're here to explore the moments of vulnerability, pivotal decisions and creative sparks that fuel the relationship between brand and culture. Get ready for a thought-provoking journey into the heart and soul of branding the unscripted, unfiltered and truly un-Kalasi truth. All right, we have a very special edition of the show today.
Speaker 3:Very Very special. It's my first time meeting you.
Speaker 1:First time ever, we're all in the same room, though, which doesn't always happen. Never happens, never happens Well not never, but very rarely. Very rarely, Very rarely. We're just out of Washington DC. We're in the Merrick Studios at Merrick Creative. Ain't this really?
Speaker 2:out of Baltimore.
Speaker 1:We're like right in the middle between Baltimore and Washington.
Speaker 3:Listen, if you guys ever come here, just know that it's my studio, there's M's everywhere.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, yes, we're all in town tonight for a party that's officially opening up the new office Excited. Thank you guys for coming.
Speaker 3:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:The new.
Speaker 3:Merit Compound. The new Merit Compound yes, Wouldn't have missed it.
Speaker 1:And I thought, since we're all in the same room for the first time, we've had a number of listeners who have either made a comment or have sent us a message that are curious how did this happen? Why the three of us are on a podcast for a company called Merit Creative. Wow, true, all right, but before we jump to the end of the story, I think we got to rewind.
Speaker 2:You know, that's Tom's favorite thing.
Speaker 1:But, before we start, we should have called the podcast. Wouldn't have been a bad name. That's kind of fire.
Speaker 3:Maybe the next next one, okay all right.
Speaker 1:We got to fully understand some of the backstories here, okay, so I thought I would start with the elder state statesman in the group, is it right?
Speaker 3:who is that? Is that jeff yeah?
Speaker 1:okay, we're all separated I think I think we're all separated by a different digit. Is the first digit in our age.
Speaker 2:I believe that. I believe you're still yeah.
Speaker 1:So I thought we'd start with here. There was a headline about Jeffrey Sledge from a list in Vibe Magazine which features Jeff that was titled Hip Hop's Most Impactful Black Music Executive. I think that is the perfect place to start as the elder statesman.
Speaker 2:I've had a couple headlines in my years, a couple light low-key. I was ranked top A&R person of all time with me and Barry.
Speaker 3:Of all time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, complex.
Speaker 3:You and Barry Weiss.
Speaker 2:Wow, well, you know he's done. People was real mad, but it was like People were mad about that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, because you know he's done People was real mad.
Speaker 2:But it was like people were mad about that yeah, cause you know it's competitive. And then people check the stats like damn he's done a lot.
Speaker 1:Okay, so let's rewind here. Okay, you got to start with with. How did you? You don't have to go all the way to birth, but let's start at the beginning. How did you get into this this, how did you?
Speaker 2:how did? You even get to be on this list I was born most impactful executives, um, so I mean, but that list I don't know, I I keep it. I don't even remember that list, but like it was recent, it was like it was last year it was 2023. That was day 20, yeah, but I I don't you ask me about that list particularly I'm just saying how does one get on a list as such?
Speaker 1:That's a big deal. It's hard work. I'm not on a list of top black executives in the world Yet Yet.
Speaker 2:Yet you working towards it, though. You know hard work and and you know longevity.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, I've been around quite a long time. I'm seeing a lot of people you know come and go and pass away and it's not and just have managed to maintain some type of relevancy over those years. That's how you get on that list.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know um, and as a inR person I tell people all the time one of the blessings of my A&R career is that working at Jive Records was a huge blessing because we didn't have a lot of New York artists. We had some, you know, we had KRS and Tribe. That was a blessing.
Speaker 2:Yes, because it forced me to be other places.
Speaker 2:So, while a lot of my peers are like New York, new York, new York and of course New York is their home, it's a central location and too many New York artists have been successful to name. But it forced me to be in Oakland and be in Texas and be in New Orleans and see the see the big, a much bigger picture. Instead of just like yo, bronx, queens, brooklyn, Manhattan I was like, nah, what's coming out of Texas you guys don't know about? Because I would go to see UGK and they would tell me about what's happening down there. Or I would go to Oakland to see too short E40 and move around and see what was happening out there and I could see trends and waves coming way before a lot of my peers because they were so centralized in New York. So that's also been a blessing is that I, even now today, I look at artists and listen to artists and it's not just this or that, it's like you know, it's kind of like I see all kinds of different trends.
Speaker 1:So tell me exactly when people who aren't familiar. What does an A&R do? Okay, what are you essentially?
Speaker 2:doing Okay. So A&R stands for Artist and Repertoire. A lot of people don't know that. They say A&R is just like the Artist and Repertoire and your job is basically to find an artist that you think could be very successful, hopefully sign them and you know maybe their producers to the label that you're working on and then you're the helpmate in making the record. You know, putting them with certain producers, talking to them about what kind of sounds they want to do, helping them understand their vision, because you have to convey that vision to the label. They're not going to sit in a marketing meeting you are. They're not going to sit with the head of the label you are. So you have to be able to convey that vision and their vision to the next levels up to get it and be like oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, I get it.
Speaker 1:So if we do this and that and this and that, we can be successful. That's what a true an? R person does, is it? Is it an agent? Do you serve as the agent? You don't serve from a legal standpoint, no, not legal, not at all legal. Financial, that's business affairs. That's totally, totally different department.
Speaker 2:So I guess it is kind of like an agent and the best an r people who are? I'll name three, or I can name four, I can name six, but uh, I'll name three, three off the head. Uh, barry Gordy, who's the best to ever do it? Best to ever do it, I'll. I'll fight that to the death. Um, la Reed, clive Davis, emmett, uh, emmett, erdogan. Those are the four off the top. There's way more, but those are the four off the top, off the top of my head. Like a lot of black people say Puffy, and that's no disrespect because Puffy was amazing, but those guys were kings.
Speaker 3:Mount Rushmore.
Speaker 2:Mount Rushmore to me and those guys were able to find an artist, a diamond in the rough in a lot of cases, and develop the talent of that artist. Whether it's Barry realizing his little man, smokey Robinson was an amazing writer even though he was in a group called the Platters. He's like, this guy's different, you know. Or LA Reid finding some kid from Knoxville, tennessee, chattanooga excuse me and be like I don't know what's up with this kid. He could be a global superstar. And that's Usher, you know, I'm at Ernie Ginn seeing this is Columbia's got this girl, this gospel girl, but they don't know what to do with her. I don't know if I can get her over here, can make her something, man. That's Aretha Franklin, you know. So you know Just.
Speaker 1:Aretha Franklin.
Speaker 2:Just Aretha Franklin. You know what I'm saying, just a little something, something. Clive Davis, being like this pretty girl from New Jersey I don't know, she could be something I don't know In Houston.
Speaker 1:You know. So you have to have that vision, Maybe a little bigger.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you have to have that vision to be able to do that. Those are what true A&R guys are and again, there's a lot more and women there's women A&R too, but those are just the four off the top of my head.
Speaker 1:So, besides Mickey, which we'll get into, what's your best? Diamond in the rough?
Speaker 2:Besides you, of course. Yeah, diamond in the rough Because Mick was a diamond, I don't know how much rough he was because he was already pause, because he was already doing stuff. Yeah, you know, I was just trying to pour gas on his fire, right, but I'd say there were these kids in Dallas. You know, I was working with young Jock at the time. We had done a deal with jock, he had did one act. It was successful. He said I got these kids in Dallas. I was like Dallas high school. I said what? So he sends me this tape these are videos to look at early YouTube and he's literally in Dallas at the high school and these kids are all doing this Just on an old camera On YouTube Talent show.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Literally the kids are like at lunchtime they're taping each other.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Right and they're doing this dance and I'm like what is this? But then I look and I'm like I don't know, all these kids are doing this dance. There's something going on here. Yeah, me and Jock talking All right, man, I'm going to give you a shot, man. And that was the Stanky Leg record. Wow, huge, wow, that's a massive record, massive. So again you got to see the vision, like all these kids in this high school, it's not three or four kids, it's all these kids at lunchtime doing this dance. It's in Dallas, there's something going home.
Speaker 1:That's how it started. It started in a cafeteria.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it started. Yeah, yeah, those kids, the kids in the group uh, named GS five, they made up that dance and they all the kids in the school, started doing it and doing it and doing it became bigger and bigger and bigger, and that in Dallas, which is not a you know, a market that a lot of heat for that, because people were like, why were you signing that bullshit?
Speaker 1:I'm like then later on it was like yo, genius.
Speaker 2:The other diamond was actually Shaq. Okay, I was going to say who is the biggest name that you've ever signed, Shaq.
Speaker 1:You got to at least tell us about.
Speaker 2:Shaq. I'll tell you the Shaq story.
Speaker 2:He's from Newark actually Newark, new Jersey, so he keeps up with East Coast stuff. He was young, he was like 18 or 19, and he was a big fan of the Fooshnickens and he was going on Arsenio Hall's show. That's when Arsenio was big. He said I'll only go on Arsenio Hall's show if I can bring my favorite rap group on with me. And I was a full snicker. So they were like yo, hang on, we don't care. So he brought you know. So he brought him on and they did. Uh, the song called what's up doc, what's up doc, can we rock? Yeah, can we rock?
Speaker 2:yeah, what's up doc and um, the guy who owned jive, who was actually he's? He's a mount Rushmore A&R person too. These are people that we know much about him, clive Calder. He's a Mount Rushmore guy, but he was like we should sign Shaq and I was like, come on, he's a basketball player. He was like no, no, he saw something. I didn't see it. He saw it. He's like all right, I was. It was like and it's going to be your project. Um, and everybody clowned because he was a basketball player. I asked, I called a lot of producers and asked them to work with Shaq. I won't name names, but a lot of them said no, like, even though it was Shaq, they didn't believe in the talent. They liked him. It wasn't about him. It's like I'm not. He's a basketball Like. I'm not. That's like right now, even like you, just somebody. Yo, I want to make an album with LeBron James.
Speaker 1:They'd be like what are you talking about? Although nowadays it seems like a lot more athletes, they're trying, they're trying.
Speaker 2:Okay, and I love to say me and Shaq are the only athlete rapper to go platinum, wow, it's true. And gold, I believe the only ones. Nobody touched it to this day. That was 1993 and 1994. Nobody's touched it since. So, anyway. So he signed Shaq and I go down to Orlando. I get the guys that want to work with me Ali Shaheed God bless him, I love him. Fife Guy who passed away, named Big DS, who did the Onyx Records, eric Sermon, who actually became more like an executive producer because he was so helpful, and a couple other guys that I can't think of off the top of their head. Biggie was on that, no, no, no, biggie was on the third album. I didn't do the third album, he did that with Clark Kent, but anyway. So we go down to Orlando. And Shaq, does you know? And Shaq, he was messing around with rap. He didn't know how to rap.
Speaker 1:So he was with the Magic.
Speaker 2:still at that point he was with the Magic yeah, so he'd go down to Orlando in the summertime because he's off. Yeah, so he'd spend the whole summer in Orlando, 110 degrees, every day. He was taking us to Universal Studios and Disney World and Hard Rock Cafe, and all this. Can I tell a little side story about Shaq?
Speaker 1:Yeah, you can tell a side story anything about jack.
Speaker 2:So, uh, one day we're in a stretch limo, right, we're going or going or coming from studio, probably coming from studio because we work early, because we have to work out, so we couldn't work late into the evening, because we have to get up early in the morning, so we're um, going to get something to eat and we're in a stretch limo. It's like four o'clock now for you, young fellas. Back in the day, banks used to close at three.
Speaker 2:Okay, those are called bankers hours bankers seven to three banks close at three o'clock you probably didn't know that mickey oh, this is.
Speaker 3:Did you even?
Speaker 1:know there was like brick and mortar banks back in the day.
Speaker 2:I knew, knew it, I knew it Peace, no ATMs back then.
Speaker 3:No ATMs, no ATMs, no ATMs. You got to go in. You got to go in, you had to balance it.
Speaker 1:There was no PayPal. There was no. There was no debit card. No, no credit card.
Speaker 2:None of that. Okay, so banks closed at three. He's like yo, stop at the bank. And I was like bro, it's 410 or something whatever, so the bank's closed. He's like watch this, Watch this. It's crazy. He gets out the limo, goes up to the bank, knocks on the glass and they open the bank. Just for him. Wow, the bank had been closed over an hour. They're like cashing out. Yeah, Just for him, they open a bank so he can get some money.
Speaker 1:He has a lot of his money in there.
Speaker 3:Yeah, he probably had all of the money he might have had all the money.
Speaker 2:So anyway, gordo Lando, we record that whole summer and you know he learns how to rap like learns how to record properly and the mic and da, da, da, da and we put the um platinum. Yeah, we had a good time, yeah.
Speaker 1:So you went then from shack and now here's where we're going to start tying it all together okay somehow you find this guy oh yes, so much many years later. So, I was many years I was at a video.
Speaker 2:I was at a photo, a video shoot, I believe, and it's a guy named quasi, which I want to show at some point doing a lot of amazing things now big deal with adidas.
Speaker 2:He runs. He's like a big, big fashion guy right. He's quasi's dope uptown so while he's uh, I think, um, at that point just assisting the stylist of the video, so I don't remember whose video it was, so we just kind of kicking it. Whatever, you know talking, you know he's talking. We told my Harlem and he's like yo, you should listen to my boy stuff. And I was like who? My man said Mickey Facts. We got this magazine. They had a magazine called Laced Magazine and Laced Magazine was a magazine about sneakers.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:You know, and Mickey was the editor.
Speaker 3:You were the editor of Laced Magazine. I was the editor of Laced Magazine.
Speaker 2:So they would put out these magazines and be like oh, these kids who are now like big fashion people, like legit fashion people, yeah, and at the time it was just kids on the street styling, you know, just figuring it out. And he's like yo, I'm going to give you this tape. It's a mixed tape. What was it born?
Speaker 3:In Search of the.
Speaker 2:NERD In Search of the NERD all.
Speaker 2:NERD stuff was Pharrell, yeah, so, so, so it's all right, tom, it's all right it was. He was in a, in a production team called the Neptunes. I know the Neptunes Okay, well, I'm just you know, I don't know if you know so they put out an album called NERD, okay, nerd, and mickey rapped over the instrumentals of that, of that mixtape, of that album, rather, and so I took it home and I'll say it's kind of interesting. I kind of like this, you know. So we met, you know, built a relationship.
Speaker 2:He would come by the office and talk quasi and steve fucking brown and saint and the whole gfc crew come out office of office and we built up a relationship to the point where I wanted to sign him because I saw what it could be.
Speaker 1:And was he the first guy to sign you?
Speaker 3:Yes, so he was actually the first person I ever met in the music industry.
Speaker 1:Unglossy is brought to you by Merrick Creative, looking to skyrocket your business's visibility and drive growth. At Merit Creative, we solve your brand and marketing woes With big ideas, decades of experience and innovative solutions. We'll draw in your target audience and keep them hooked. Remember, creativity is key to success. Partner with Merit Creative and unlock your brand's potential. Learn more at meritcreativecom. And now back to the show.
Speaker 3:When Quazi told me that he gave my music to Jeff Sledge, I didn't know who Jeff Sledge was. This is around the time before the internet. You can't Google anybody so I didn't know who he was. I just knew that he worked at a record label. So my first thought process is I'm gonna meet with this guy at we went to dinner. I forgot what we went to dinner.
Speaker 1:I forgot where we went, you take him somewhere, nice, I hope yeah, we went somewhere nice okay, good, yeah, I had the corporate, yeah, the corporate car, so we went somewhere nice.
Speaker 3:So like I the my first again. I'm 24 years old. My first thought process was we're gonna go to go to dinner. I'm going to get a record deal tonight.
Speaker 1:You're going to sign it I thought he was and they're going to wheel in the cash.
Speaker 3:Like oh.
Speaker 2:I'll push the paper across the table with a check.
Speaker 3:Go enjoy yourself. Here's your check. Here's the paper I thought I was getting signed that night. What I came to realize was that that was just an initial meeting and that the industry works completely different from what you see on television and things like that. So he built a relationship with us as a, as a unit, and he was just kind of. He was kind of like he's kind of like the big brother, just kind of watching but not interfering. He did not interfere, he just watched what we were doing and then he kind of just caught. He kind of saw what was happening. I remember we again my first show ever headlining was in china that's right.
Speaker 2:You went to china. That's right, I went to china did he send you to china.
Speaker 3:No, no, no, no, fader, fader, fader, magazine, uh from china wanted us to come out there and do something with them. So we did something in china. Took me and my friends. We went to china. First time you had ever. Fader magazine from China wanted us to come out there and do something with them. So we did something in China. It took me and my friends. We went to China First time you had ever been out of the country. The first time ever out of the country. First time out of the Bronx Not the first time out of the Bronx but the first time out of the country.
Speaker 3:And when we came home, Jeff, you were living in Harlem and we went to Prec house that was my producer and we did the super song yep and he a and r that song for us and it was. It was like a youtube kind of thing like people started doing dances to it. Chanel iman has a dance to it right now.
Speaker 2:Supra was a sneaker brand. It's a fashion, so he did that.
Speaker 3:And then I started to bubble on my own and I began putting out a song every week and we would stay in contact with Jeff. But he still was like I don't know if I'm wrong or right, but I felt like he felt we weren't ready just yet. We still weren't ready, so we were taking meetings. I took meetings with Lenny S, I took meetings at Warner and Interscope. I took all kind of meetings. Now I know that when I go to a meeting I'm not getting a record deal. So we took all of these meetings and now, like I'm one of the hottest mcs and in newest mcs coming out and I got a chance to get on a double excel cover. I got a chance to tour with naz and Busta Rhymes. I did a car commercial, I did the Honda commercial, I was on video games. I did all of this stuff. I toured the world. I got a chance to see the entire world. And then, when we were done, so you toured with Nas all over the world. I toured with Nas in the country. I was on the Rock the Bells tour with him oh, okay, I was on the rock the bells tour with him. Oh, okay. So, uh, and it was. It was just, it was amazing every night, right, um.
Speaker 3:But then when I was finally done, I had big aspirations of doing like the soundtrack for need for speed. I wanted to try to kind of change music. I was way too too ahead of the curve, instead of just being normal, like I just wanted to do everything outside of the box. You still haven't figured that one out, okay. So, um, finally, um, when I kind of zeroed in and I was done doing everything experimental that I wanted to do, I finally kind of sat down in atlanta and I put together like 20 songs and I, once they were done, I sent them to jeff, mind you. So you had him still in the back of your head, always had jeff in the back of my head, right.
Speaker 3:So again, I was doing music all the time. I wasn't really sending him any music like that. I wasn't really sending him he would. I know he saw what was happening because he's in the label system, he's doing what he's doing and obviously my name is buzzing. We had meetings but it didn't really go where we were supposed to go. But this time I sent him all of this music and this was the very first time he responded back and said I think you're ready and I want to do a deal, and it would be at Battery Jive and I was like, ok, it's time. And that's when we kind of finally started working together. This was 2010. So I met him in 2006 and it was a four year process.
Speaker 3:And I think that a lot of times artists feel like you know they have a hit record or they have a song and it's that moment, right then and there. But I'm grateful that it took me four years because it made me appreciate the grind and the hard work. All of my peers were signing deals Kid Cudi signed with Kanye, wale signed with Mark Ronson, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Everybody was getting deals. I was the last artist that was on the cover of the XXL to get a record deal deals. I was the last artist that was on the cover of the XXL to get a record deal. So everything that I had got done was off the strength of pure talent and drive. I didn't have a cosign, I didn't have a big budget, I didn't have a label. Every deal that I made happen I made happen myself, with my team. That was it. It was just us independent and jeff saw that and jeff was like, okay, let's bring this into the fold.
Speaker 2:And that's essentially my story as meeting jeff and then kind of the culmination of him signing me to jive right and also I'd like to say and I know it's it's a totally different time now, so I don't know if you can really do this anymore, but in that four-year span, like mick said, I became very close with just not him, but actually keeping a trill. I spent more time with the squad than with him. Yeah, yeah, I spent a lot of time with saint, like a lot of time, me and saint. Saint would just come out of office and we'd go out and saint started to take me out to all the things that was happening, because at that time, remember, we had the rosenthal's. This is part of that. That downtown seat, that downtown scene, that below house and scene, was where all these at that time kids were hanging and developing this scene, whether it was art or whether it was fashion or whether it was fashion.
Speaker 2:All the guys that you see in fashion now and girls like they came from, they came from there, they came from there.
Speaker 2:Like I told you, I love to see a film of lower broadway now, because you'd be pointing people like, oh shit, that's that person, that person, they were all there so saying would take me to all these things, and we go these, these french djs are djing. They come with me tonight and we go to see there. It was a big DJ team called Justice. Yeah, like he'd be like yo, there's an art gallery over. You should come with me tonight, or you should. Well, this is. It was a club called Santos. That was his nickname, santos. It was like yo, santos is going to be crazy tonight. So he saying it in the time that mick was also developing, I was learning the scene, yeah, so I didn't want to know, I didn't want to sign an artist like him and not know what to do with him.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so when I in the time the same as and steve, all those guys were taking me around and showing me the scene and I'm meeting different people, not caring about all of them, right, I'm learning the scene as well, you know what I'm saying. He took me to see kid cuddy. Kid cuddy did a show. I swear to god, it wasn't 20 people, it wasn't 20 people and they were like you gotta come, it's our boy cuddy.
Speaker 3:It was wasn't 20 people in the room and we ran to that show before he got on stage and you know, it was about maybe seven, eight people in that yeah, including us yeah, so it was like the scene that I learned.
Speaker 2:So when, when me and mic started working together, I understood where it needed, I had a better sense. I mean, they understood fully, but I had a better sense of where it needed to go, cause I wasn't like what's that? You know? Cause, cause I'm not timing Cause I was developing and learning about that scene.
Speaker 1:We need Saint on the show.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, oh yeah.
Speaker 1:And did Saint? Did Saint always know? I mean he, has he been doing the same? I mean he's an agent, right he's?
Speaker 3:a manager.
Speaker 1:He's a manager, manager, and he's been doing that ever since.
Speaker 3:Yes, don't manage it. I was the. I was his first artist, you were his first artist.
Speaker 2:And we. He was working at Alicia Keys Songwriting Camp, wow. So yeah, it's full circle, saint, if Saint was a rapper, a producer, he'd be Kanye.
Speaker 3:Literally, he knew everything Way back.
Speaker 1:He knew it, he knew it all. He was literally like that person's going to work.
Speaker 2:This person's going to do that.
Speaker 3:I don't know, he knew it. He was Kanye. He was kind of like a Nostradamus he pinpointed what fashion would work. He pinpointed what music would work. He pinpointed what art would work Hebrew, brantley, basquiat before it started blowing up Like this guy, saint, we need him. Yeah, we'll get him. We'll get him.
Speaker 1:He's ready, he's ready, all right, so let's fast forward a little bit because we're getting around. I haven't come in the picture yet. I haven't come on the rap scene yet. So at some point then, because this is how we're going to get to our connection. Yes, you met Lupe Fiasco.
Speaker 3:So I met Lupe Fiasco with Chris Atlas Cornerstone Promoting. You told me yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, Promoting the cool.
Speaker 1:We talked about that, promoting the cool.
Speaker 3:That's my first time meeting him and I was there as a Least Magazine editor, so I was telling him about the magazine and I said to him what year is this?
Speaker 3:This is 2007. 2007. And I said to him one day we're going to work together and you know, artists say this to artists all the time and he just kind of brushed it off and walked away Two years later, the next time we meet, we were doing a photo shoot for Phenomenon to go to Japan. Phenomenon, phenomenon Swagger yeah, I remember that. And the third time we met, we were in Japan together.
Speaker 1:And then you're performing together.
Speaker 3:Performing together. We met, we were in japan together and then you're performing together, performing together, and we built this is about 2009, this is 2009, and we had, we built that relationship from 2009 onward. Um, and then, yeah, so that's how, that's how me and so now this is interesting.
Speaker 1:Now we're starting to see this. I don't know the year I'm not as good with years as you are but I would say right around the same time.
Speaker 3:You met him.
Speaker 1:I'm sitting at a bar at South by Southwest and I'm working with a company called Higgy who is owned by the Chicago Sun-Times. Okay, the Chicago Sun-Times guy who owns it I'm blanking on his name, I should know his name calls me and says listen, I have an artist who's going to fly in and you are going to deal with him and he's going to be our new uh like, face of the of the company. He's going to be our creative director. I need you to make sure that everybody at South by says well, it knows he's here and you run him around and I want every minute of his day filled. So the time he tells me this, it's midnight the day before he's flying. At eight o'clock in the morning, damn yeah. So we put a whole plan together. I had never met the guy before.
Speaker 2:I mean.
Speaker 1:I knew of him but I didn't really know that well, lupe Fiasco flies in. One of the greatest people I've ever worked with is. He flew in and he goes what do you got for me? And I had stayed up all night. We in. And he goes what do you got for me? And I had stayed up all night. We planned up the whole thing. I had a partner in crime shout out to Lauren Sloat who basically was with me the whole time. We planned out the whole day. We made rumors out that Lupe was flying in. We did all this kind of crazy stuff. We shipped him around everywhere. We did every, every major media outlet that was out South by Southwest.
Speaker 1:And then that night I get a call, or that afternoon I get a call from Target and Target says, hey, we're in. You guys have been to South by Southwest. They all, the all the different restaurants you know get branded. So it was like the Target grill. And they said to me hey, we want, uh, is Lupe doing anything tonight? And I was like, well, what do you, what are you thinking? And they said we would like him to headline, uh, our, our, our, our events that night. Wow.
Speaker 1:So I said, all right, hold on. So I, I Lupe, I say hey, uh, you okay doing like a, doing like a show tonight. And he's like I'll do whatever you want me to do. Um, he's like, and I said okay. So I get back on the phone and I'll say here's the deal. We need a green room, we need uh, I need to introduce him personally, I need 25 vip tickets and I think a couple other things. I get off the phone, he looks at me, he goes you know, who do you know here? I'm like I don't know anybody, but I just I figured I'd see how many tickets make it sound?
Speaker 3:good yeah, I had to make it sound. Was it a free show? Did he do it for free?
Speaker 1:yeah, yeah, so he was just there and that's kind of how that scene was. So we, so we're about to go and he tells me he goes. You realize, I don't have anything with me, like, I don't have them, I don't have my music, I don't have a dj right, you got to figure this all out. So he gives me a phone number and I call a guy and the guy sends me the music on my computer and, as I got the music he's like all right, cool, you're the dj, you're the dj.
Speaker 1:And I'm like, well, I don't know I do. And he's like all you got to do is go up there and hit play. I mean, I'm only going to play like three songs, so it wasn't a big deal. So, and then, as soon as I'm done, I'm going to you're, I'm going to grab you and you get me out of here as fast as possible. I need to be back in my hotel in like 15 minutes. I said, all right, I'm in. He comes up, people are going crazy and he looks at me and I'm like, okay, I hit play. And I swear that between the time I hit play and the music came on, it felt like about three years to me. It was probably only three seconds, but I was sweating bullets because I'm like I'm up here with Lupe Fiasco and I don't know what I'm doing, and the song came on. He took it from there and it was unbelievable, wow.
Speaker 2:It was unbelievable. You got footage of that.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, there's a lot of footage out there still yeah.
Speaker 2:I see that yeah.
Speaker 1:I have to get that for you, but it was awesome.
Speaker 1:And to that point I said to him we're going to, we're going to stay working together, we're going to do something big one day. And so we ended up working together home. We don't know what to do anymore and I wanted to get into the podcast space. So I thought you know what? I'm going to call Lupe out of the blue and see if he'll do a podcast with me. Called him up, he said yeah, man. I said what do you mean? You're in, he's like, I'm not. And what does?
Speaker 3:Mickey say I didn't. First of all, before I answer this, I didn't know anything about the podcast space. So he asked me what would it take for you to do a podcast? He didn't say anything. He didn't say it would be with me. He didn't say none of that. He just said what would it take for you to do a podcast? And I told him I was like I need like $1,500, $2,000 a week or something like that. And that was the last I ever heard about the podcast.
Speaker 1:And you were out.
Speaker 3:Right, Because, again, this is COVID he didn't give me any specifics. If Lupe would have said what would it take for you to do a podcast with me, I would have said let's do it right now. He didn't say that. So, because he didn't say that he just put a random thing out, Didn't say that he just just put a random thing out.
Speaker 1:I just didn't you think to push it a little bit and ask him some questions you know how lou is.
Speaker 3:I just was like this is what it's gonna take for me to do it. You know, not not thinking that it was with him. If I would have known it was with him, I would have just did so mickey does not become our third house, I don't become the host.
Speaker 1:We, we fast forward a little bit, royce the five, nine steps in. Yes, he says I'm in, didn't ask for 1500 right, he probably asked him a little differently and maybe he asked him a little differently. Wildly successful show. Yes, I don't know if lupe and royce would say that at this point, because we got into a little little tiff here and there and uh, you know, the show doesn't exist anymore. But through that show I eventually meet me facts.
Speaker 3:Yes, now I meet you. While I was in Miami doing drink champs and that was my very first time getting on the show we were having these in IG, conversations about who's the best rapper, and it wasn't a episode, it was a Patreon episode.
Speaker 3:Yes, and that was the first time I actually right yeah, that was the first time I actually spoke to to tom and I was like oh okay, this white guy seems cool and then, like a week later, the show is no longer in existence and um, because I was at the beach at that point trying to stop put out the fire that was occurring and we had a bunch of guys on.
Speaker 1:We're all talking about who's the best rapper and I'm like what, I can't believe. We're talking about this. What do you mean? Who's the best rapper?
Speaker 3:right, um, it was friendly. And then you know the next thing, you know it's all dissipated, um, and then I guess, at some point Tom gives me a call and Tom is like hey, you want to do a podcast with me, you want to start this, this thing with me. And uh, what? No, actually, no, it didn't work like that.
Speaker 3:I don't think it worked like that. I think it was. Tom was following me on ig, yeah, and I was starting to do the. I was starting to do these rap competitions, that's what it. Yes, and he saw that and he reached out to me and I was like why is Tom reaching out to me? He's like I think we can make something out of this.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I liked it.
Speaker 3:And I was like I'm just, you know it's getting some traction, but I don't really care. And at the same time, dj was hitting me. And DJ was like I'm at the bars app, we can finance this. And I was like listen, I don't really, I don't, I don't care, I'm gonna take care of it, just leave me alone. And then dj hit me back. I was like no, no, I'm serious, I can pay you and finance this. Yeah, and that's when you know he, he, he was gave me what I wanted from lupe. So he was like you got your money Right.
Speaker 3:So then, when I told Tom that I had got paid, then Tom was like ah, I want paid too. I want to get paid too. I can get even more money out of them. Yeah, let's work together, let's start a company together. And I was like okay, you know, I don't really say you know, if you explain what it is to me nine times out of ten, I'm gonna say all right, let's try it. Like I'm not gonna be somebody that's gonna turn it down too often. And it worked out well, it did we. We made a lot of money uh, not a lot of money.
Speaker 1:We did how many seasons of the mickey fax bars app challenge three two.
Speaker 3:We did two seasons two seasons of that yes, we did two seasons, the first seasons of that. Yes, we did two seasons. The first one, I was already underway. The second season went really well.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And then we were going to do a third season, that's right. And then it just kind of had nothing to do with us. It was the bar zap kind of just went kaput because Meta got rid of that space which we heard on our last episode, right. But we were trying but then that's when I was looping in jeff to get bun b for the second season. That's how we met then of the bars app.
Speaker 1:Well, wait a minute. Before that, though, we were looping in bun b for another project and the client we won't talk about to be the face of that project, of that project, yes, and they ended up opting not to go with bundy they played themselves crazy, that was a.
Speaker 3:That was a big l told them.
Speaker 2:I told them what bun was gonna do, and now look at him. Trill burgers is massive, yeah he has like not.
Speaker 1:I mean, he's always been great for his music, but now he's doing something yeah, he's like, he's like a mogul and we.
Speaker 3:We had that meeting with them and we were letting them know, like this is what's going to happen, and they just passed on it. But that was how I introduced Jeff to Tom Because of, you know, trying to put that together. Yeah, but it was really trying to get him to do the season. That's why, and then, once you saw how easy it was to get one, you, you came up, we came up with this idea to pitch for meta yeah, we pitched meta.
Speaker 1:They didn't take it. They didn't take it. Then some time goes by. We're still working on stuff, yes, and then the light bulb goes off yeah, okay, so let me, let me say that.
Speaker 3:So again, tom knows me. Tom, these, he's like pinky in the brain, right, and I'm clearly pinky, he's clearly brain, and he always has these crazy podcast ideas. We've done about three or four or five of them. Every time Tom says I got this idea for a podcast, I let him talk, I let him talk, I let him talk and when he's done, I'm like, okay, let's do it, let's try it, let's try it and we try it. It might work, it might not work.
Speaker 3:And then this last one, he was like I'm gonna figure this out, I'm gonna figure this out, we're gonna get something in the music space. We're gonna do it, I promise you. He's like what if we do something with jeffrey? I was like who's jeffrey? Because I don't know any jeffrey. He's like jeffrey sledge. I was like, oh, jeff, okay, yeah, we can do something with jeff. Jeff would do it because jeff had been doing podcasting for years. Yeah, like he was doing this in marcus's place in red rooster for years and years and years and years. And I was like we can get jeff to do it because he's already good in that space, he's already moving in there, so we can get him. You know I'll be there and you can run it, and that's how we kind of brought this whole thing together. Yeah, but I want to add something to that.
Speaker 1:well, first I want to ask you a question, okay, okay, see, I always call you Jeffrey.
Speaker 2:Because I feel like that's your actual name.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but Mickey says what do you call him Jeffrey?
Speaker 2:Because everybody cuts it, but I actually like Jeffrey, oh do you?
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's my name, I just wanted to clear that up.
Speaker 2:But everybody cuts years. I just got tired of trying to correct people all the time like all right, because you know the music is joe sledge, joe sledge. It's like that's not really my name it just got a ring to it so for the record, I do call you by the right name. It was brand. It was yeah, but the jeff sledge thing is brand it's branded man like it's.
Speaker 3:It's hard to say jeffrey, it's too. It doesn't. It doesn't roll off the you know. So I just it's's Jeff's ledge just works. So then that turned into Jeff. But you know, I said that I was going to call him Jeffrey, but I can't. I call you Jeffrey. It's 18 years. I'm going to add some context here on this podcast All right.
Speaker 1:So this podcast came to birth. A I love working with you, yes, b I wanted to find a way to, to to work with Jeffrey, but C I had just bought a company and my mission in life was to take this company and completely rethink how its perception of this company lives in the world, not because they had done anything wrong, but just because I wanted to change the perception. And I wanted to be able to talk about brand and marketing, not with brand and marketing people and what was expected, but talk to people about brand and marketing who don't even think of themselves in branding marketing. And I think the biggest space to do that in a lot of cases and it's not solely what we're doing here, but a big part of that is the music industry, because the music industry tends to be on the forefront of culture on the forefront of what brands are doing, and a lot of brands come to music to try to figure out what's next.
Speaker 1:And so that's really how this thing came to be is like how could I get, how could I submerge myself in that as non-musician, Although I do fancy myself as a musician? Today we're going to figure that out. But I knew if I, if I could, if I could get you guys on board with this, we could do something here and we could have some fun with it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, could do something here and we could have some fun with it. Yeah, and I, you know, and I I believe in time. I think time is a very successful businessman and I he, he sold me when we got the money from meta. Once we got the money from meta, anything time said he wanted to do that's all it took it's really all it took.
Speaker 1:It's really all it didn't take too.
Speaker 3:It didn't take too too much convincing and, um, you know, I'm glad that I took that chance and sometimes you have to take chances with people. You know that you don't know, because you just never know what somebody will become and the fact that he said that we're going to do this, we're going to figure this out, and I put that trust in him and we got to where we are. You know, we've had incredible guests so far and we have a ton of incredible guests.
Speaker 1:We haven't even scratched the surface yet.
Speaker 3:We have a ton of incredible guests on the docket that we haven't even scheduled. That's on the horizon and that's a lot due to our network, you know, and the people in our Rolodexes, you know, and I'm excited to kind of see where we're going to take this when it goes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, me too.
Speaker 3:It's a lot of people, we need to start counting our episodes, you know? I think we need to say you know, episode 43.
Speaker 2:I'm going to tell you why I do that.
Speaker 1:I'm going to tell people who are listening that make podcasts. If you say it on the air, then you gotta, you gotta live up to it, but you know sometimes we slide them around.
Speaker 1:We have a lot Now. We've been splitting episodes into two as of late, okay, and I've done that very, very specifically because I think people tend to. There's people who listen to long podcasts, but I like to think people have approximately 25 to 35 minutes in a commute, in a workout, in an activity that they're doing, and to me that's kind of the perfect length Going to the store, yes, and I think it's kind of fun to have a part one and part two which we might do with this one, yeah no, I'm not mad at that, you know.
Speaker 3:I just want to say you know we're trying things out. Jeffrey has been taking this thing to the next level. No doubt A lot of the guests that we've been having have been out of Jeff's Rolodex. You got a lot more to go though he's been shooting from the hip, and you know I did that purposely because I wanted to make sure this thing did not fail.
Speaker 1:And you're waiting on your.
Speaker 3:I got a crazy Rolodex. You're pacing it, I'm pacing it. And after the Marcus thing I was like I don know, you know we had a little trouble we had a little hiccup but we we figured it out.
Speaker 3:We figured it out, you know, and, and and. We still made it work. And now you know, I'm ready to start going into the Rolodex. Yeah, I'm gonna start seeing some stuff, some people from myself, you know, but Tom and jeffrey have been really putting in a lot of work and I want to say thank you to both of you guys because you know you guys have taken this to where you know, I knew it would go to, and you know, and I gotta start pulling some weight how about?
Speaker 1:how about? I ask you guys this what's that favorite moment so far of the pod? Yeah, we've had a lot of guests and they've been very a big like variety of people. We've had a lot of guests and they've been a big variety of people. We've had people in the music industry. We've had people in the sports industry. We've had people in the entertainment space. We've had people in the brand and marketing space.
Speaker 2:You know what One thing I can't? Why am I blanking on his name the cat? That's the architect? Oh, anthony Laney. It shocked me how interested I was once we got going I didn't know him for a can of paint, so I'm not saying I thought he was going to be whack because I don't even know him. But once he got rolling and it was interesting with him because I could see that respectfully, I could see he does a lot of podcasts, right, he does a lot of interviews.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So at first he was.
Speaker 3:He was very scripted. He was very stock-answer-y right.
Speaker 2:But it was cool, I get it. He was still giving me information, but then we started. He also, and your other man, your man who was a pilot.
Speaker 3:Oh, he was great.
Speaker 2:Oh, he was really good, not that he was stock answering, but I think he was thrown and Anthony were thrown by some of the questions and the questions made them like oh shit, okay. Oh, nobody really covered me like that, like pause, like that before, like with the pilot I'm blanking on his name. We was like yo, like what about that before? Like with the pilot. I'm blanking on his name.
Speaker 3:We was like yo, like what about? Oh, oh, matt Jacobs, matt.
Speaker 2:Matt Jacobs, that's who we're talking about. Yeah, I was like yo, Matt, what about Orgy's on the private jet, what's going on? And you know what I'm saying. And he's like, oh, oh, we're doing that type of podcast, you know, yeah, and we went to that. Or even with square foot, I got it. But like like, what's the flyest house you ever built? Like, yeah, what'd you do? And I could see him going like oh, no gravity room yeah, yeah and all that people.
Speaker 2:I could see him going like, oh okay, people never really asked me this type of stuff. They kind of asked me the basics. So I that's not I don't know they're necessarily my favorite guests, but that's what I saw how you could interview somebody from a genre or profession that you're not really know a lot about. But if you ask them questions in a certain kind of way you could loosen them up and be like, oh okay, these are questions that nobody would have In their world. Nobody probably would have asked them that. Like yo, matt, what about sex on the private jet? Nobody would ask him that, right, because he's just like a pilot. And they'd be like, oh so what's your altitude? Like nobody would ask him.
Speaker 2:Like more layman kind of fantasy-ish kind of questions, the same, anthony. So I learned. I learned from them. Like it doesn't matter. Like if I don't really quite understand, know um about what you do, it's got to do enough research to kind of learn what questions ask and what questions like normal, like if I don't really quite know about what you do, it's got to do enough research to kind of learn what questions to ask and what questions like normal, a normal person would want to know, not like a professional, but a normal person on the street.
Speaker 1:And that's exactly why we do this Cause I wouldn't have even thought to ask him half of the stuff you asked him which made it kind of wacky and cool.
Speaker 2:Yeah, cool, yeah. He was really having a good time yeah.
Speaker 3:You know, for me, I have three moments. Three moments in order.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 3:Okay, so three is um, the woman that we didn't interview and you came late and she just was talking crazy about you. Yeah, beverly, beverly.
Speaker 1:We got to get that.
Speaker 3:We got to get that she was incredible, and we didn't even interview her. I can already tell that that's going to be. I was nervous about it, so that's three.
Speaker 1:It was so good. I can't wait. We talked to her for a while, oh yeah.
Speaker 3:She was amazing.
Speaker 1:That's three.
Speaker 3:Two, you know I found it to be comical, the naked in the fray situation.
Speaker 1:That might have been my number one. It's just like come on.
Speaker 3:You just wanted me and Jeff to be naked in the woods.
Speaker 1:Be naked in the woods I just wanted to put you in a very awkward situation and see how you would react.
Speaker 3:It was funny, though I give it a good moment. All right, and my number one, obviously, you know, reagan Gomez, come on.
Speaker 2:What are we talking about? What are we?
Speaker 3:talking about here, like the schoolboy crushing me, came out for Reagan Gomez and all of my friends were jealous of me for like three days. When I posted that online I was like you interviewed, you got to look at and speak to Reagan Gomez. I was like, yeah, so that was. That was number one moment here, number one number one easily. Well, I.
Speaker 1:Mags was the most fun conversation. Mags was dope, Mags was good. I like Mags. Mags is a good person. But I also gotta say Marcus Samuelson like just listening to him to talk about the love of what he does in cooking.
Speaker 2:From Artistic's.
Speaker 3:Which one, the live one or the?
Speaker 1:I think I like the live one a little bit better. We ate, we got to be in his space. I mean it was great. I loved, because I just love talking to my cousin Tim. I love hearing about the NBA.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah.
Speaker 1:The.
Speaker 3:NBA was fly too. I'm such a huge NBA fan, I wouldn't mind a repeat episode with him.
Speaker 1:Now that the Olympics are over.
Speaker 2:I wouldn't mind and the WNBA is like really kicked in.
Speaker 3:He's a part of the WNBA stuff too, the WNBA is owned. Wow, yeah, I would love to have a repeat episode with him, so we get him back on.
Speaker 1:I love that we got so much more to do.
Speaker 3:Yeah we do. We got a lot of crazy guests on the way, like a lot, so we need you guys to stay tuned to Unglossy with Jeffrey Sledge. What's your last name, tom?
Speaker 1:Are you kidding me, the great Tom Frank.
Speaker 3:Tom Frank.
Speaker 1:Thomas Frank, you always make fun of my two first names and me Mickey Fax. It's Mickey, it's Mickey, it's Mickey All right, there we go, there we go.
Speaker 3:That was it. That's how you learn about us.
Speaker 1:That's how you learn. Right there, let's do it. And now we're going to hang out. We're going to go to a lot that pouring ice. But you know, man, you got to do what they got to do and we got to have some ice for our drinks. Yeah, okay, all right. Tom Frank, mickey Facts.
Speaker 2:Jeffrey Sleds. Mickey, yeah, you went the wrong way.
Speaker 1:I went the wrong way.
Speaker 2:We'll start that again all right, folks.
Speaker 1:That's our show. Tune in to unglossing decoding brand and culture on apple podcast, spotify or youtube and follow us on instagram at unglossy pod to join the conversation. Until next time, I'm tom frank I'm jeffrey sledge that was good.
