Unglossy: Decoding Brand in Culture
Welcome to "Unglossy: Decoding Brand in Culture," where we delve into the essence of branding beyond the surface sheen. A brand is more than just a logo or a slogan; it's a reflection of identity, values, and reputation that resonates within our cultural landscape. Enjoy as we peel back the layers to uncover the raw, authentic stories behind the people and products that shape our world.
This isn't your average corporate podcast. Join Tom Frank, partner and chief creative officer at Merrick Creative, Mickey Factz, Hip Hop Artist and Founder and CEO of Pendulum Ink, and Jeffrey Sledge, a seasoned music industry veteran, for "Unglossy" as they get to the heart of what truly drives individual and organizational brand . In a world where where image is carefully curated and narratives meticulously crafted, we're here to explore the moments of vulnerability, pivotal decisions, and creative sparks that fuel the relationship between brand and culture.
Get ready for a thought-provoking journey into the heart and soul of branding – the unscripted, unfiltered, and truly Unglossy truth. Tune in to "Unglossy: Decoding Brand in Culture" on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube or wherever you catch your podcasts. Follow us on Instagram @UnglossyPod and join the conversation.
Unglossy is produced and distributed by Merrick Studios. Let your story take the mic. Learn more at https://merrick-studios.com
Unglossy: Decoding Brand in Culture
Bun B: Culture, Burgers & the Real Trill
In this powerhouse episode of Unglossy, hip-hop icon and cultural heavyweight Bun B (aka Bernard Freeman) joins Thomas Frank and Jeffrey Sledge for a deep, funny, and wildly inspiring conversation that spans decades — and industries.
From his early days forming UGK with the late, great Pimp C to building Trill Burgers into America’s best burger brand (literally), Bun breaks down the milestones, missteps, and mindset that kept him both relevant and real. He talks about the origin of his rap name, the Houston culture that shaped him, what it really takes to build longevity in music and business — and why being trill isn’t just a brand, it’s a standard.
You’ll hear stories that have never been told, like the day UGK signed with Jive, how Bun became a professor at Rice University, why Ridin’ Dirty was their first real album, and the honest truth about whether he’d ever run for mayor of Houston.
And yes, there’s a surprise. Stay till the end to catch a major Unglossy announcement you won't want to miss.
This episode is a masterclass in authenticity, entrepreneurship, and cultural leadership — from a man who’s done it all and still shows up hungry.
🎙️ Tap in. This is Unglossy.
"Unglossy: Decoding Brand in Culture," is produced and distributed by Merrick Studio and hosted by Bun B, Tom Frank and Jeffrey Sledge. Tune in to hear this thought-provoking discussion on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you catch your podcasts. Follow us on Instagram @UnglossyPod to join the conversation and support the show at https://unglossypod.buzzsprout.com/
This week on Unglassy.
Speaker 2:So I love to talk to other people about their big pimping moment, or when did they find their burger? You know what I'm saying, because that's what I tell everybody Go find your burger, bro.
Speaker 1:Go find your burger. Go find your burger, bro. I love that.
Speaker 2:Get out here and go for it, but you got to go for it.
Speaker 3:You got to go, and that's what we're doing with this. We're going for it. I found another burger.
Speaker 2:And that's the thing when you actually dream for something and chase it and catch it, you start running after all that shit. Now I'm a dog chasing taxi cabs and shit. Exactly you know what I'm saying Because I caught one. Exactly I caught a car bro. Now I feel like I can catch all of them.
Speaker 1:From the top. Yeah, I'm Tom Frank.
Speaker 2:I'm Mickey Fax.
Speaker 3:And yeah, I'm Tom Frank, I'm Mickey Fax and I'm Jeffrey.
Speaker 1:Sledge, Welcome to Unglossy, to coning brand and culture. I'm Tom Frank, partner and chief creative officer at Merit Creative. This is Mickey Fax, hip hop artist and founder and CEO of Pendulum Inc. And that is Jeffrey Sledge, a seasoned music industry veteran who has worked with some of the biggest artists in the business. We, who has worked with some of the biggest artists in the business, we're here to explore the moments of vulnerability, pivotal decisions and creative sparks that fuel the relationship between brand and culture. Get ready for a thought-provoking journey into the heart and soul of branding the unscripted, unfiltered and truly unglossy truth. All right, welcome back to Unglossy, Today's guest, Jeffrey this is an icon that doesn't even begin to cover it.
Speaker 3:Not even a little bit. You know this guy. I've known him since 1992. Was that 92 when you guys signed 92. I always tell people I actually was the first person they met at Jive because the guy who ran Jive was always notoriously late for meetings. His secretary at the time called me and said Sledge, those guys from Texas are here, go talk to them. And I'm like what. So I went in the conference room it was Bun Pimp C Miss him dearly and Pimp's mother Wes, who I miss tremendously and we just sat and talked. We didn't even talk about music. Really it was like, oh, you know, because I hadn't been to New York before, they were talking about the buildings and how expensive it was, you know. We had a long conversation and we came in and finally did the music meeting. Yeah, it was a trip.
Speaker 1:So you got to introduce this guy first, though.
Speaker 3:I'm just waiting, I'm just asking, I'm just waiting, I'm talking like I didn't even say his name. So we have the infamous Bun B Bernard Freeman, bun B for the infamous UGK and now the I can't think of a word but the amazing Trill Burgess franchise. He also does the music for the rodeo for texas. He's also a college professor. He does the gumball rally like he's a foodie. He's a movie aficionado. He's does fashion aficionado.
Speaker 1:He does everything can we just call him the burger king no, no, the we're gonna get you there, maybe the. Let me just say this, folks, for everyone, listen, we got a little surprise coming at the very end, so you got to stick with us. You got to stick with us to the very end for this one.
Speaker 2:I'll make sure to stick around for the surprise. You stick all the way around Sounds good. Thank you, guys for having me. Can I start like this Because? Can I start like this? Because I always have an issue with infamy and infamous. Okay, because I think it's one of the terms that's misused quite a lot. So fame and being famous is being known or glorified or looked up to for something that you want to be looked up to. Okay, infamy is when people know you for something you'd rather they not know you?
Speaker 3:okay, if I used it wrong, I use it wrong.
Speaker 2:I used it wrong until somebody corrected me, and now I correct everybody, okay. That's why it's so fitting for like mob deep the infamous, because yeah, they're very crimey kind of kids.
Speaker 3:Yeah, they were. They were pretty raw. Yeah, we gotta talk about the album one day, um, but yeah, yeah, let's get it started, man absolutely, man.
Speaker 2:Happy to be here, happy to be here, guys beautiful, this is beautiful man.
Speaker 3:So go ahead, time you start. So I mean do we?
Speaker 1:let's start. I I've always wanted to ask you this bun, though, and I and maybe I should know this but where bun b? Where does it? Where does it come from?
Speaker 2:So Bun B, what's the story?
Speaker 2:So my family nickname was Bunny Rabbit.
Speaker 2:From a very small child my nickname was Bunny Rabbit because I would shake in my sleep, like I would like kind of just ball up and shake in my sleep and technically I still sleep like that Not as pronounced as it was then because it would be kind of like balled up kind of a thing which I imagine as a little kid, like a very small toddler, was kind of cute, um, but that shit got old very fast because I grew up and I grew up in the kind of family where we used to either have to all sleep on the bed together when we spent the night at each other's house or we were all like on a shared pallet, like for people that don't know, because most people hear pallet in like the shipping sense, yeah, more people.
Speaker 2:But um, pallet in the black context, as far as I was introduced to it is like basically like a mock mattress kind of a setup. So basically you would put like a comforter with a sheet on top of it and then like a group of people would sleep on top of that and then they would all collectively sleep under another sheet and a comforter.
Speaker 2:More so kids than anything.
Speaker 3:Yes, kids.
Speaker 2:Typically how kids are. So when you go to your cousin's house, or everybody went over to grandma's house, that's how we would house everybody right, yeah, wow, so what originated?
Speaker 1:I don't want to spend all the time talking about. I'm sorry, I didn't mean to get on here I'm sorry.
Speaker 2:So yeah, so sleeping on a pallet with other kids shaking and shit that that was that was an issue and then.
Speaker 2:So my close friends got to calling me knew me as bunny because the rabbit war off. So my family nickname to this day was bunny, and a good friend of mine, sharan, was like when I started rapping he's like you need a rap name. And this was back with, uh, you know, paulie p and dougie d and all that. So my rap name was bun bunny b, then it was bun b ice and then I dropped the ice and it became bun b. So if you listen on an old UGK record I think it might be supposed to bubble there's a song where Pim says you still ice to me, fool. And that's what that means is because I probably was in two years of dropping the ice.
Speaker 3:Hey, now, if I'm not mistaken, again, I'm going to let it go. After this, did the west just to call you bunny? Yes, that's my family nickname I never understood. I never put the two, the family thing together. But I remember, I remember to this day her. She's always called you bunny. I didn't realize, I just thought she was just like extending the bun, I know and't realize it was a new thing.
Speaker 2:There was only a handful of people that ever called me that. Faze called me that because Faze used to trap out of my cousin's house Wow, many, many years ago. So he knew my family. Nickname for me was Bunny, so that was more like a joke kind of a thing. Okay With him.
Speaker 1:Big Mike from the Convicts used to call me bunny dangerous from johnny dangerously yeah, the the old michael keaton parody film wow, yeah, I mean, did you know this was always going to be you? Did you know when you were a kid you were going to be in the music?
Speaker 2:no not at all I knew I wanted to be in entertainment, but I wanted to be more like acting and comedy. That was really what I was into. So I did a lot of the high school intramural type shit. I actually went to state for that, but I skipped state and went to senior weekend and so that became a whole other thing Because I was like I was Romeo, like I played Romeo in high school to a white Juliet, so that was a thing that was a thing.
Speaker 2:That's a thing, that was a thing. But I really enjoyed like everything that that small town kind of built in you kind of a thing, because there was no opportunity really there, so whatever it was you was gonna do, you was gonna have to kind of figure it out, yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, poor arthur, wow, so wait.
Speaker 3:So how did? How did I notice? But how did the music thing start?
Speaker 2:music thing started with chad. Chad was in the music before everybody. Oh god, my grandson is calling me. What does this kid want?
Speaker 2:call braylon queen, sorry that's all right all right, but it started with chad chad and was one of the first guys in the hometown to do music, like with real equipment and everything boom, boomtown. Mr Boomtown, the video director was like one of the first people to like get a beat machine and get microphones and actually rap and make beats. And Pimp was like the youngest person in that collective. Everybody else was like seniors and everything else and Pimp was like a freshman kind of thing, so he was like the young guy in that collective. Pep was like a freshman kind of thing, so he was like the young guy in that collective. So he was making music, probably at least two, two and a half years before I even started writing rhymes Really, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2:And then we as the older people started to graduate and cycle out. We kind of had to figure out what we were going to do. We started with like maybe 11 guys it was like 11 of us that were collectively all trying to rap like this guy was a dj, these two dudes were dancers, this guy was a rapper, we were a group, it was this whole kind of thing and then, one by one, like everybody, decided to do something else for a living. So at the end of the day, um, and then dj dmd was around and he but he had kind of his own little group. He wasn't necessarily in that collective. We were all friends, right, we were all cool, but they eventually found their way another way. But yeah, we, I looked up and it was really was me, chad and bird one day, and that's kind of who ended up being UGK initially.
Speaker 1:Wow, and so, jeffrey, how did Jive first even know about?
Speaker 3:So Jive was built. It couldn't do this today, but at the time Jive was built on Okay, there was these things called one-stops, and one-stops were the suppliers to whatever local retail record retail store was in that region. There were one-stops in every city Chicago everybody had one-stops Kind of like a wholesaler. Yeah, like a wholesaler.
Speaker 3:So there was a one-stop I forget the name of it now but it was a one-stop in Texas and what Jive would do was Jive had the guy when Jive Barry Weiss. He had very good connections with the one-stops so he would always call them and say yo, what's happening in your area, like locally, what groups are putting out songs or albums in your area that are popping? That's how the drive found too short, that's how I'll drive, I'll be 40. That's how I found R Kelly, on and on and on. And so he called, he was called people's in Texas and asked and this somebody said yo, this is a group called UGK that that are kind of bubbling down here.
Speaker 2:I wasn't supposed to bubble here was it was supposed to bubble. Was that? Was that? No, no, tell me something good. So there was a local radio show here called houston hometown and, like they, every couple of months they would do a contest and the winner would win studio time to press up a record. And so we got in. We got in on the last day of that particular cycle of competition and we got more votes than everybody else added up for. Tell me something good. Yeah, but they disqualified us because we were already with Russell. We were already with Russell Washington and big time. We already had a record deal technically so they wouldn't. So they disqualified us from getting the single.
Speaker 2:But because so many people called in and we didn't know this, apparently you were not supposed to be able to be played on the radio if you didn't have a record for sale at the time. That was what I had heard at the time. But because it was such a big demand and we were signed and the record was getting ready to be pressed and be released, they went ahead and just put it in the rotation locally. And I think that the week we dropped the independent project not too hard to swallow, but the first UGK independent project with Big Time Records was the same week that Crisscross dropped and Crisscross was the number one record out of every one stop and wholesaler except the one stop here. Wow, we were the only thing that was like competitively over that that weekend, like selling units in stores comparatively, and so the first call we got was from warlock, so the record company's phone number was the was the phone that big time records store in the flea market.
Speaker 2:So I and I worked, I worked the record store, so I'm answering the phone yeah so it was like warlock called, then, um, the label that had Mix-a-Lot, and those guys called Everybody started calling right, I don't even know if you know this, jeff. So everybody called this week right, and it was a Friday, everybody was calling, everybody was calling. And then I go to work Saturday and nobody called Right, like nobody called. And then Sunday, nobody called Right, like nobody called. And then Sunday, nobody called. And so we got nervous because we felt like we overplayed our hand. Like profile, you name it, who was EPMD was on, were they on profile EPMD on sleeping bag? On sleeping bag, everybody called, like from the smallest to everybody called. And then over the weekend, like Sunday, we was like yo ain't nobody calling, like to everybody calling. And then over the weekend, like something was like yo ain't nobody calling Like we might have fucked up.
Speaker 1:We're not thinking it's the weekend. It's the weekend. Nobody's in the office. We don't know how this shit go.
Speaker 2:Yeah Right. So we like fuck that. First motherfucker call Monday we signing, and it was.
Speaker 3:Jive and it was Jive, it was Jive Records. I didn't know that part of the story.
Speaker 2:The funny thing is that across town, tony Draper's watching this the whole time Wow, tony Draper's watching it the whole time and he realized that we signed too quick, we didn't get enough.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah yeah, wow, so you fly to New York. You've never been to New York.
Speaker 2:I've never been. I think Chad had been with the choir younger. To New York I've never been. I think Chad had been with the choir younger. Him and Mitchell Queen had been, because that was the first iteration of UGK. I think they had been to New York before. I had never been to New York before at all. I'd seen it all on TV. I'd see like a legless, homeless person like Eddie Murphy, in Trading Places and shit. I have all these different ideas of what New York is. And then we get dropped off at Columbus Circle. I think it was a resident. It might have been Radisson at the time or Empire Hotel, yeah, but that was where it might have been the Empire. And then the lobby was the original Blue Note. I didn't know that. If I'm not mistaken, I think the original Blue Note was in that building and shit got very New York very quickly because Chad wanted to go to Harlem.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I got a story about that too. We took a cab to Harlem.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it just got dropped off. We was like we want to go to Harlem. Dude was like what do you mean? Like we want to go to Harlem? He's like where? You trying to go to Harlem. We was like we don't know, we ain't never been. Yeah, we dropped in, I think, one, I don't know if it was 125th or 145th.
Speaker 3:Probably 125th. I think it might have been 125th 125th was interesting because I don't know if it was this trip or another trip. You guys wanted to get a haircut. That was the trip. Yes, and my barber. I lived in Harlem, my barber. I lived in Harlem, my barber, lenny the Barber well, it was Sam Gore's shop, but Lenny the Barber, he was our barber and I was like yo, I got these guys from Texas who want to go to Haircut and I brought them to the barbershop.
Speaker 2:And they had the two food joints across the street. They were like don't get the Chinese, get the Jamaican, yeah. And then they linked up with the record store dude around the corner. When you get to you know right, and we just, but just getting a cab, though, like trying to get the cab, and the dude trying he can tell we not from New.
Speaker 3:York. Right and we want to go to.
Speaker 2:Harlem, and we don't even know where we want to go.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we just want to yep. I remember that, yes, they came to the shop and they kind of recognized to yep. I remember that, yes, they came to the shop and they kind of recognized me at first and I remember somehow it came up, they were rappers and you guys had the song. That might have been later. Chad had the song with Big Mike. That was a little later, yeah, A little later, and one of the guys in the shop was like, oh, you're the guy from the Big Mike video.
Speaker 4:And then later, on and then from the Big Mike video and then later on I would go to get the haircut.
Speaker 3:I was like your boy was here and I'm like what are you talking about? And Chad would come to New York and go there by himself. And I'd tell him he was in Harlem he would just go to that barbershop.
Speaker 2:Chad would go to New York and he would either go to or probably both, but I don't know in which order. But it would be. You go see Lord Jamar and Branson.
Speaker 3:Yeah, branson yeah.
Speaker 2:Branson was right up the street. Him and Branson were very, very good friends.
Speaker 3:Branson was right up the street, yeah, man.
Speaker 2:Yeah, those were the days Chocolate tie.
Speaker 3:The real chocolate tie the real chocolate tie. Yeah, yeah, yep, yep, so yeah, that's what happened. That, yep, so yeah, that's what happened.
Speaker 1:That's amazing.
Speaker 3:That's how it started actually.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But Jeff and I never talked music. We talked other people's music. We never talked. I've never talked UGK business with Jeff.
Speaker 3:With me and Bun. We always talked culture, whatever's going on in the culture, whether it's movies, tv. I still remember things like, tom, you remember the Dallas Cowboys used to do this back when they scored. So, bun, actually I remember being in the car Bun's car and we were talking and he explained to me what that comes from.
Speaker 2:I don't know where that comes from, not football it's like a raise the roof kind of thing, but it's a raise the roof gesture, but if you're in the car you would hit the roof, kind of thing. Yeah, but it's a raise the roof gesture, but if you're in the car, you're actually you would hit the roof, like when a song, like when SI Hit the roof the song was like yeah, the song was. You were really feeling what you was listening to. You were really in the moment.
Speaker 3:Yes, slam the roof of the car and the Dallas Cowboys picked that up and it became this national thing and nobody really knew.
Speaker 2:Nobody even knew where it came from. It wasn't even a Dallas thing. No, it wasn't a Dallas thing at all.
Speaker 3:Dallas is far from Port Arthur's and it wasn't a Dallas thing at all. There was always these cultural things that we would talk about, and I'm always a kind of very curious person when it comes to the culture of whatever city I'm in.
Speaker 3:I want to know what do y'all do that? Why y'all wear y'all pants like that? How come y'all wear those sneakers? So me and Bun, he would just always be explaining shit to me. And then other thing about Bun and Chad is they were all scientists really with the hip-hop shit, right. So unlike a lot of other groups, they listened to everything. So we'd have these conversations about whatever was out. It could be some New York shit, it could be some Chicago shit, it could be some Bay Area shit, it could be some Texas shit, it could be some Miami shit. And they had heard it. They had heard the whole album and broke it down.
Speaker 1:They were studying it and breaking it down.
Speaker 2:Pimp's breaking down the sonic aspect of it and I'm paying attention to the wordplay, to the lyrics.
Speaker 1:Is that how you two worked? You were more on the word side, he was more.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I did no music. I did no music and not to take away from Pimp, pimp was an amazing writer as well, but all I had to do, tom, was rap. So I'm just cocked, loaded and ready, like in the holster, itching, itching, ready to go the whole time, but I never really. So our fan base and our culture spoke through slower music, not necessarily the screwed up stuff, but just a very laid back bpm. You know around 76 to 78, very chill and for me, which is fine, right, we're making the music the bass wants to hear. But I can't really. I can't really rap like I want to at that tempo. So I'm always asking for pimp like yo, make me, make me a song. And pimp is the main one bragging the whole time. Pimp is like you can't out rap, bum b, bum b the colors, whatever I'm like yo, give me a song so I can show yeah, so what you can do 16s was kind of that, but it wasn't really until, like, we got murder under the belt where I was really allowed to cut loose.
Speaker 2:But it's one of those things where I liken it to OutKast. I think the only reason that Big Boi doesn't get the proper recognition he should is because he's rapping with Andra. Yes, I feel like Chad snapped. All the Pimp C quotables come from murder. Mm, if you think about it, got cocaine numbers. You would think I was lying All the fly shit. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:That people like to quote about Chad. A lot of it comes from his verse on murder. Yeah, yeah, but.
Speaker 2:I get highly regarded for my verse on murder and I'm like the only, I say the only reason y'all ain't really paying attention because pimp is really going off like he's wrapping his ass off but about some very, very street shit. But it's super technical. My shit is technical for technical sake. I got got you. You know what I'm saying. But he's like the whole time like I've never really out rapped Chad. There's no song where like I'm just leaving Chad in the dust, like there's never been. That you know what I'm saying. And the same way with OutKast. Like Andre's not just you know, laughing at him. No, no, those dudes are, they're powerful, they're bar for bar, absolutely with this but certain songs call for certain things.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know I'm saying so, but no, it was always pimp, it was always pimp's baby and pimp was the music, and I just tried to fill in the blanks. The best part, the best I could do.
Speaker 1:You feel like, as a rapper, it just came naturally to you, or is it something that you had to put a lot of work in? I mean because I feel like some guys just have it like they just have the ability to think quick, to put words together, and others just don't. But where are you thinking that I?
Speaker 2:am good with words, I will say that, right, I do have a history of writing um in school, you know I'm saying I was always first with the journal, always, you know, always very well read. But everything like from literature doesn't really, doesn't really work until you learn enough about the world and able to put certain shit like. I can know a bunch of words, I can know the definition, I can know how to use it, but I gotta put that shit in context. Yeah, right, so a lot of it, a lot of the rhymes from that, from my earliest point of rhyming was trying to be very technical and try to fend out, figure out where to bend words at, and if there wasn't a clear match, then maybe two syllables, or I took a three syllable phrase to make these things match, or so forth, and.
Speaker 2:But sometimes you can be doing all this shit and it's particularly for my audience. It's going over a motherfucker's head, because that's not really what I'm required to do. Yeah, and I think that's a problem that a lot of people from my generation have with what's going on with music now is because, quite frankly, lyricism is not something you're required to do now. To be fair, the best rappers, the biggest rappers are very. They're the best writers, right. The jay-z's, jay cole's, the kendrick's, the drakes these are all some of the best writers we've ever had, absolutely the deepest thinkers we've ever had, right, but they never lost sight of entertainment right and talking to the room. That's where a lot of people that are great technical people can get lost at.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah. I'm going to ask you this question what's your favorite UGK album?
Speaker 2:I'd have to say the last one. I'd have to say the last one, normally, I would say Ryan Dirty because of, but that's because of the sacrifices Like Ryan Dirty, because of, but that's because of the sacrifices. Like Ryan Dirty is special because, like Ryan Dirty, is the first real UGK out.
Speaker 3:What do you mean by that? Like Riding.
Speaker 2:Dirty is the first album uninterrupted by sample clearance, uninterrupted by reproduction, because, remember, there were songs that were reproduced on our album that we didn't know and so we didn't want money, if you remember, we didn't want a cash advance, we wanted equipment, we wanted creative control and we kind of sacrificed the advancement of cash because we just didn't want the music to be fucked with. Yep, yep, you know, I'm saying now, all things being done, like we were still getting, like we were renting equipment, but we're renting it from the record company's equipment store, so I still get double bill.
Speaker 2:I'm all, I'm beyond it now I'm beyond it now. Right like I, I, I persevered in spite of, but that was the kind of shit we were dealing with and it was really like, well, that's what you want? Yeah, fuck it, go ahead.
Speaker 3:I'm getting mine anyway, but that's the first album where the actual vision was uninterrupted.
Speaker 2:every song we wanted on that album made that album the the ability to mix in Dolby like letting us actually really mix in 5.1. Riding Dirty being recorded in the beta version of Pro Tools. Like a lot of people don't know that, it's the first rap album recorded in Pro Tools. I didn't know that.
Speaker 2:In the beta version because Skip Holman, when we recorded Skip, was the number one radio commercial producer, so he had the largest sound bank. That's where you know. Joe met him through that, but he was the first to utilize pro tools in order to digitally send these commercials through email from station to station. Like it was this whole and we didn't really understand really what was going on. Pimp just wanted the best sound available. This was the guy. This was an SSL board. This was a hundred some thousand dollar board we were working with. We had the most advanced technology any person recording at that time could have available to them. I'm still not punching in.
Speaker 2:I was literally one of the first rappers if not the first rapper with the ability to punch in a verse, and I'm recording murder. Straight through. And I'm like no, because I'm realizing I got to be able to do it in the booth. Otherwise, if there's tricks in the booth, there's going to have to be tricks on the stage.
Speaker 3:On the stage. There's going to have to be tricks on the stage.
Speaker 2:We were each other's hype man there wasn't technically. I'll take that back. Bobo was a hype man for several years. I'll take that back. Bobo was more of a hype man as energy, not really filling in words or anything like that. Pimp and I kind of played off of each other as far as ad-libs and things like that. Murder at the time was like a moment in the show I used to do murder where I'd light a cigarette and put it on my ear and then do murder Because I had timed out how long it would take for it to burn down to my ear, burn down to your ear.
Speaker 2:It made for good stage theatrics.
Speaker 2:You got to realize UGK. Even even up to this point we'd only had like two music videos. They were both under maybe 25 30 grand in the 90s. These were very so for riding dirty. We was like we didn't even want to do the video because we we didn't feel like the budget was worth it. So we never even did a video for ride dirty. So and we didn't really get a lot of magazine pieces. So ugk a lot of times. Pieces, ugk a lot of times. People's first time seeing us was at a show on stage. That's why Pimp used to bitch about the music so much, because this is it. Every time we did a show for the first time in the city it was the make or break moment. The only thing we had going for us was if they came to the show and enjoyed it and wanted more.
Speaker 3:Enjoyed the show exactly.
Speaker 2:Because we're not getting hit through the magazines.
Speaker 3:We're not getting hit with radio and all that stuff.
Speaker 1:So what do you owe your longevity to? I mean, you've been in this business for a long time.
Speaker 2:I've been myself this entire time, right to the point where anybody that's met me throughout this, this, let's say, through the music, right? So we're in 90. We're starting in 92 professionally. Right now we're in 25.
Speaker 2:So this is 33 years of music and I I don't know if you can find anybody that can really tell you I'm a different dude now. Now there was a period where I used to smoke, fry and ride around with guns and all that type of shit. Yeah, I was different back then, but I still listened to the music. I listened to, watched the movies and read books. I did all of that shit. You know what I'm saying, but I'm still everybody that knows me personally I'm still the same dude you've met the same time. I'm still interested in most of the same shit. You know I'm saying I'm still concerned about a lot of the same shit. I still listen to the same shit. Talk about the shit I used to.
Speaker 2:I've been someone that people can count on as an entertainer, as a performer, as a mentor, as a collaborator, as a friend. Right, I can call bun for this situation, this song, this show, this experience, this moment, and I know exactly what I'm going to get from consistency. What is? Uh, I'm trying to think of her name, carrie fisher carrie fisher in her latter years.
Speaker 2:The actress.
Speaker 1:The actress yeah.
Speaker 2:She was a script doctor. Oh, I didn't know that, yeah, and so script doctor's job is to come in and fix a scene. Basically there's like a big monologue, or there's a moment, you know, somebody needs to write the hero monologue for the hero, somebody needs to write something for the lover or the girl that's in love, or somebody's got to say something in the moment that grabs the crowd. And sometimes those moments when they may look good on paper but when the actor gets there after everything they've done, it doesn't feel authentic. Now, a lot of times, these actors, they allow these actors and afford them the opportunity to write for themselves. But everybody ain't finna be Ben Affleck or Matt Damon who actually have acting chops that they can lend to it.
Speaker 2:So every now and then somebody got to come in and fix that shit. I do that in hip-hop. So a lot of the features you see me on it was because somebody's cousin or homeboy or artist, for whatever reason, they wanted to give somebody a good look on the record. It didn't work out. We're in a time crunch, we're talking about this and I need somebody that can deliver. It's Saturday night. I got to turn this shit Monday. You know what I'm saying. Who can we call? It's a strip club song. It's a car song. It's a street song. It's a conscious song. It's a street song. It's a conscious song. Right, it's a protest song. Who can we call for this shit? I've been that person for a lot of people.
Speaker 1:You're the Carrie Fisher, the Carrie Fisher of rap yeah, hip hop's Carrie Fisher.
Speaker 2:I take that you know what I'm saying. But then also I've been a big brother and an uncle to a lot of people too. Absolutely, because I've been around long enough to know that a lot of rappers have been told by songs and videos and records and pictures that they can go to this city, connect with this person and have that experience. And you would be shocked by how many artists went somewhere with somebody thinking they were good with that person, only to realize that person ain't good. You know what I'm saying. So for Houston, because I'm from Port Arthur, technically I'm not attached to any particular neighborhood. Well, technically I am, because I was born in Houston. I grew up on the north side in a very small neighborhood but I wasn't a man then. So I'm connected now because people know as an older person. But it's a little different. But because I didn't have those neighborhood territorial ties, I pretty much could go anywhere. So if people wanted to come to Houston and go to 5th Ward, go to the Fofo or go to South Park or go by DJ Screwstore or go get some Frenchie's fried chicken or go get some Burns BBQ, wherever it is they want to go, I would go and just pick people up because I didn't want promoters or other rappers or different people. I didn't want nobody to get because it wasn't a good look for the city. Yeah, that shit wouldn't be a good look for the city.
Speaker 2:So I would just go and pick dudes up and I had a you know if I'm in town and a lot of these. This is the home, the house of blues era, right, where hip-hop starts to be allowed into the house of blues. And so you got dudes in towns on tuesdays and thursdays, right, because they're they're trying to get. Because I got to be in new orleans on friday. I got to be in this city.
Speaker 2:So I had a lot of free time at this time. I was doing teaching different things. Um, I had a lot of downtime, pimples locked up and so forth and so on. So I would just go and get dudes and it would be cool to go get lupe one week, right, and then go get mac miller and then go get the cool kids. And you know what I'm saying yeah, show these dudes and take them around and let them like where you want to go. You know I'm saying I want to go to screw shot, I want some barbecue, I want some fried chicken. I want to go see this. All right, well, let's do it and ride these dudes around, and these, these dudes can have a very authentic Houston experience.
Speaker 1:That's pretty cool that you did that and we still do that, I still do that Now.
Speaker 2:I do it with Trulberg. You just come through and you know, meet me at the shop.
Speaker 1:We're going to get to Trulberg because I want to get into that, but first I want to talk about I want to talk about you as an educator though, because I was always curious, I saw curious, I saw this you taught at rice, right. I mean that's kind of tell me more about that.
Speaker 2:That's kind of cool so, um, a couple of my opportunities have come because comedian there was busy. This is one of them. I became a television pundit, like the reason you see me talking on a lot of talk shows and doing a lot of that stuff is because there was a very I can't remember specifically, it was a police brutality case at the time. It might have have been Jenna, it might have been a Jenna situation, but they wanted to talk to the millionaire because Riding Dirty was out and it was about police brutality.
Speaker 2:And he was like I don't want to talk about that type of shit, but Bun B might want to talk about it.
Speaker 3:So you have to go through.
Speaker 2:I got that part. So they had asked the millionaire to speak at Rice University at a class on hip hop and religion. He was like, yeah, I don't like doing that type of shit, but you know who you should call Call Bun man.
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Speaker 1:And now back to the show.
Speaker 2:So I was called, I was asked to come and speak at the class. I met with the teacher of the class, dr Anthony Penn. Before I looked at some books on the shelf, I recognized a couple. We had some conversations. We went in, we had the conversation with the class and then a couple of weeks later he was like you know, you should think about teaching this class with me.
Speaker 2:I was like what do you mean? I didn't even go to college. He was like yeah, but the knowledge you have you couldn't learn at a university anyway. So no way to really accredit what you know. So he was like technically, you would be part of a cultural exchange program, whereas you are the culture. That you would be part of a cultural exchange program, whereas you are the culture. So this was about bringing Houston's culture literally onto the campus in form of me as a co-teacher in this course, and then we would take the university out and, because it was a course on hip hop and religion, we would teach a course in a studio, then we would teach one in a church so that you could see the spaces in which these things were actually practiced in. Um, but how long did you teach over there? I taught, uh, I taught three semesters over a five-year period, okay, alternating okay, but I, I was, I was really concerned because I never, I never lectured or anything like that. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2:I don't come from academia, so that's a whole different way of speaking and our class isn't like well, college for that matter, isn't really like memorization and regurgitation. That's high school shit, right For the most part. And I'm at Rice University, I'm at a private university, I'm in a humanities course, so a lot of this is really just about how they see it. You know what I'm saying how they perceive the things we've told them to read, the songs we've showed them the things I kind of talk through different things. It's just really how they perceive it, and some of them well, most of them, frankly had no frame of reference for hip, because we're starting post-slavery, we're starting from post-slavery Reconstruction, jim Crow, all of that, the black experience, black culture, how it spread, how it's taught, how black people get information Right and typically it was either.
Speaker 2:You know, after slavery, black people either chose to reclaim their minds or their bodies, and what I mean by that is that people that wanted to reclaim their mind typically went to the church they wanted. The church was what. The pastor was typically the most well-read black person in town. He was the only person really allowed to own books because he preached at the church, and so that's where people would get education from. So a lot of people really went to the church for, you know, to reclaim education and knowledge of themselves for the world. And then other people wanted to reclaim their body, and that's where the idea of the juke joint. So you see it in centers, right. You guys have seen centers, right, I'm assuming.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So that's what you see. It's split between the church and the juke joint, that's the black experience slavery right. So, and you see it, that's a house of flesh right, because these are people who were not allowed to be themselves. A lot of them were raped, men, men and women forced to have sex with people they didn't want to force to procreate with people they weren't in love with. So the juke joint was where people could go and reclaim their body and have sex with who they wanted to have sex with and dance how they want, move their body in the way that they wanted to.
Speaker 2:So and that's kind of what we taught in the class and so that's interesting, so we this was a very it was. It was a reframing of what we're talking about. It's. This is a class built around hip-hop and religion, but as a as a subtext to a much deeper conversation about the black experience in America from a humanities aspect. So the questions I would get from that would be like, yeah, what's a borough?
Speaker 2:Like to the point where, like, the most interesting thing that we were posed with was we're the women in leadership, was we're the women in leadership, because the practitioners of music, the supporters of music, are women and the practitioners of religion and the supporters of religion are primarily women, but there's no leadership in either one. Where's that coming from? Then we realized, like I had TAs, we had no women TAs. We had no female representation. Wow. We realized, like I had th, we had no women tas, we had no female representation. Wow. So when we came back, we had to bring on two female tas into the class to have that perspective represented, both from religion and hip-hop, and be and open to realizing we didn't think that through.
Speaker 2:Obviously you know what I'm saying as men yeah so it was an amazing exchange of ideas and perception and would you ever do it again people. No, I would love to do it again I just it was something I did because, frankly, music wasn't fun for me anymore at the time and I just needed something, something different to do, to engage my time. It does not pay well, but it was cool.
Speaker 2:I'm going to be honest I don't think I ever felt as adult as I did like sitting in the office on office hours, like if kids wanted to come in and talk before or after class, and then Queenie used to work out right around the corner so she would meet me in the faculty lounge for lunch. That's different shit, bro. You're a true adult right there, I'm just telling you on, on, on literally the number one university campus in texas yeah which rice university is alternates between the number 15 and number 17 college in in america.
Speaker 2:like it's extremely prestigious To be able to park here and scan my little badge and all that type of shit. We're sitting there. I'm teaching in. I got shawl collar sweaters. I'm wearing sports coat. I'm on my grown man shit I'm ordering shit from what's your man name in Brooklyn? The grown man shit in Brooklyn, brooklyn Circus, brooklyn Circus, brooklyn Circus. Back then it was the beginning of web retail and I could order some of that shit.
Speaker 2:I was like that fly black man on campus type collegiate type shit. That was my shit back then, man. But then Queen was like you got a job in the daytime, but this ain't your day job, you got to get back to music.
Speaker 2:We found a path back to music, and I still talk to Dr Penn and we've talked about bringing this course back, but from more of a civics approach in mass, and then I'm really getting back to like in modern, in like 2025, what is? What are our respective moral obligations in this society? You know I'm saying because I think people put their religious beliefs into what they believe everyone's moral obligation is and I think there's an underlying note to what you believe that within your religion represents and that's really what we're representing. You know what I'm saying because you can't say you're, you're a christian and but you are cool with this. Yeah, you know what I'm saying. And you can't say you're muslim, but you, this is. You know this is haram. You know I'm saying that. You know, if we take that away from the conversation, we'll have a lot more in common. But, as we know, people will live and die behind their God and I ain't got time to argue with them about it.
Speaker 1:You know what I'm saying but it is an interesting thought, if you take religion away from that conversation, it is a completely different People insert religion into the conversation to make it awkward for you.
Speaker 2:That's the thing. When they deal with an atheist or an agnostic who doesn't have a dog in that race, now they.
Speaker 3:It's a mock offense yeah, they all kill things.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's interesting a lot of what we deal with in modern time, particularly with social media and the way we communicate, is posturing. Oh, absolutely, it is posturing.
Speaker 1:Oh absolutely. It's posturing. All of social media is posturing.
Speaker 2:I try to be very careful not to be emotionally engaged with people conversationally.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know what I'm saying. Like I just try to make because I would give, I'd send the wrong signal to you right now if I argue with you, because you would think I give a fuck more than I really do. Yeah, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3:So I would rather not even you think it's really affecting your day. Yeah, yeah absolutely no.
Speaker 2:No, it ain't even that serious bro. I'm going to let you hold that. You got it. I'm going to let you hold that, yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 1:So over time though, with Rice, with advocacy efforts, you have become somewhat. I call you the mayor of Houston at this point.
Speaker 2:I've had that thrown on me a lot. I know what the job is for a mayor. I've been courted about it. There's been studies. You know people have put you know feelers out and talked to people and I've talked to a couple of people. Out and talk to people and I've talked to a couple of people. I had a good conversation with Kasim when he was mayor in Atlanta when it was backstage during the OutKast reunion concerts and I asked him. I said you know, I've been. I'm being vetted right now for mayor. I'm still trying to consider if I even want the job. I was like what is a job? He says I'll be very honest, it's. It's a lot of dealing with people that you don't want to deal with on a daily basis.
Speaker 2:He said there are so many representatives of so many different groups. He says it for your city. Your city is twice as diverse as my city, so you've got to go. You spend a lot of time just shaking hands and shaking hands and trying to put out fires and, you know, trying to find some balance between two different people that want the same thing. We just see two different paths.
Speaker 2:But every now and then he says there's a little old lady with a pothole and she's been asking people and asking people and nobody helped her. You might be in the neighborhood and you might run over the pothole and get out and be like what is this? And that old lady will tell you I've been calling people, he says, and you can make a call and somebody can come the next day and fix that lady's pothole. He said it's the little victories, bro. He said there's not a lot of big victories. And I talked to, you know, sylvester turner, you know, rest in peace who was our mayor for many years, and he was like, bro, you're a manager, so you just you're managing the city, you're managing the budget, you're managing egos and you're managing emotions, he says, and the first thing you realize is that a lot of things you'd like to do. You can't even do that shit.
Speaker 2:No like you, bumby ain't.
Speaker 2:No more concerts for you no, he said you can't be somewhere on stage and a fireman dying and you got to you supposed to be. When the city worker dies, you have to go to that house and inform that family and then, like if a cop or something gets killed by a criminal son, I got to go and talk to that family. Then I got to go on TV and tell the city we're going to get this mother Like it's a lot, bro, it's a lot and it's a thankless job. The minute you choose to run JJ White said it, I've said it before, we said it separately the minute you choose to run for office, half of the people in the city that love you now hate you on prison.
Speaker 2:And it's resources. A lot of people run for the office because of the resources that are available, even the people that really want to affect change. You have to be in the game and have to hold some kind of power, some position, to really affect change and then you get in there. But you have to do this to get the change you want and it lends itself to too much compromise and as a person with my public position, I can get to those resources right without having to put myself in a compromising position, because I don't need your votes in two years and all that type of shit.
Speaker 1:So maybe stick to being the unofficial mayor, could I?
Speaker 2:be the mayor? Yeah, but that ain't a reason to be the mayor.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I don't think just because I could be the mayor, that ain't no fucking reason to be the mayor. Yeah, I don't think just because I could be the mayor, that ain't no fucking reason to be the mayor I'm going to get jammed up.
Speaker 2:They're going to put a bunch of shit on my desk, they're going to wait until I'm busy, I'm going to sign some shit and next thing you know, I'm going to be on a federal investigation in three years because somebody made $500, took $500, but made it look like I took 50 or something. No, I'm doing it over here, bro. I'm good. I'd rather be doing this type of shit.
Speaker 3:So wait. So tell me about how the idea for Trail Burger started.
Speaker 1:That's what we got to get into. I'm getting hungry thinking about it.
Speaker 2:So me and Premium Pete, I'm sure you're familiar with Premium Pete.
Speaker 3:Of course, of course, of course.
Speaker 2:We met over sneakers, but we bonded over food, food. Yeah, this is when I was still eating like a fat dude and I was always Pete, always wanted to go eat, which was always mind-blowing to me because Pete's at least half my size. Right Back then he might have been I might have been one and a half heavier than Pete, but it was a bottomless pig with this dude. The dude can eat you under the table.
Speaker 3:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:And so he came up with the idea of like, no, let's start a blog. Let's start a blog because you, you're traveling, you're eating a lot of shit, I'm traveling, I'm eating a lot of shit. Like, let's show, I bet people would love to see this shit, because that's what we're doing, we're going places. He's sending me pictures, I'm sending him video, right, like we should just do this. You know, we were like at the very least we might be able to get a good restaurant table right, build relationships, get tables and restaurants. Somebody might send us a new snack right, like like baby d and some shit. She got the hostess cooking that ain't out yet, type shit.
Speaker 2:But it also ended up being like this little guide to people eating different types of food. It kind of took on a life of itself. We have people that contribute to it now, and we created a function of it with a hashtag what did you eat today? That was the thing. So we put that hashtag. So anybody that posted something with that hashtag, we would put it up on the site, that's cool.
Speaker 2:So that just helped it grow, grow, more and more and more. And then, at the same time, like we both wanted to be in the food business but neither one of us wanted a restaurant. And when I say restaurant, I mean a menu with appetizers, soups, salads, entrees, shared dishes, desserts, all of that type of shit. That's a lot of inventory, you know. I'm saying especially depending on the cuisine you're trying to do. You know, and this is a very, very rough business. It's a very, very rough business. Even for people with the kind of advantages that I've had, it's still a very rough business. Oh yeah, um, and so I put that out. And then I met Andy Wynn, one of my partners, back during the Magic Days in Vegas. He had a clothing line called I Am King. I met my other partner, nick Skirfield. Nick was one of the hosts of the original Texans podcast, okay, and we got close when the Texans played the Patriots, when they wore the varsity jackets to the game and walked. They're like, well, I'm never wearing a varsity jacket again, type shit. And we all got. We got close separately, like I got close with Andy, got close with Nick. Meanwhile Nick transitioned into the marketing and promotions business, andy got into the food business and eventually Nick became one of the marketers and promotions business. Andy got into the food business and eventually Nick became one of the marketers for his brands.
Speaker 2:Andy wanted to start a burger company. The concept had a lot of energy in LA but Murder, she Wrote, had all the momentum at the time. So the LA burger things were pretty rushed. So he kept trying to catch the trend before it got nationwide. So he's like if I don't catch it, it's in Oklahoma right now, if I don't catch it in Texas, this thing's going to be. I'm going to miss it. And he felt he had a really good burger. So he's like who can we partner with? And Nick was like I think Bun's looking for something. So we sat down. I tried the burger. I thought it was great. They were like give me a little bit better. It came back to me. I was like what are we doing? Like seriously, they were like well, we can do pop-ups. We can pay you X amount of money to show up at the pop-ups. You know what I'm saying. Give you some royalties or something like that, or if you want to jump in with us as a partner or whatever. No-transcript, that was a no-brainer for me.
Speaker 3:No-brainer.
Speaker 2:You know. So I just put everything, all the energy I had into the burger, getting it in front of people, like my job was to get people to line up and get in there and try the burger. I knew if I could get them to try the burger, I got them. That was it and it worked. It actually was a concept that worked. It paid off. It's still paying off.
Speaker 3:It does off. You know and and it's an amazing thing like that concept of an artist or athlete, or you know somebody with some notoriety, whoever that may be, you giving them the burger right and you'll get a real-time reaction right there.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, absolutely, that was the whole thing, amazing marketing and I felt comfortable enough to let people like I wanted people to give me their honest opinion of the burger. I think the lowest rating we got was from Tyler. Tyler gave us an 8.5. Yes, sir, because he didn't. But he didn't like pickles though. He liked pickles and onions. But he came back the next day and the day after that he got the burger on a Friday at Coachella. Came back Saturday, got it no pickles, no onions.
Speaker 2:And then got it on Sunday just like he wanted, and after that he was like this burger's the shit.
Speaker 1:So the lowest rating.
Speaker 2:But he did it three days in a row, yeah, like I got a bite but you didn't get the burger the way you wanted it. And you can get the burger the way you want it.
Speaker 2:I ask everybody to try it with everything at the first bite, because there's a flavor combination, there's a texture combination that goes with that and you really don't get the full experience. I don't drink wine with food. I don't drink wine at all. So I've been told, like I've only been enjoying food maybe 70, 75 percent because of no wine yeah, because I'm not pairing it right I'm not pairing it with with, with the right thing so, but it's been, it's been a ride man, it's been.
Speaker 2:You know it's a new love, it's a new passion. Um, it's it's I'm. It's been a ride man, it's been. You know it's a new love, it's a new passion, it's it's. I'm still learning things. You know what I'm saying. I'm very new to it, so I'm just trying to, you know, learn from my mistake, listen to my partners, trust my partners. You know I've had issues with that already, but it's something. I really believe that this could be a big thing. I think this could create a generational wealth for the owners.
Speaker 2:I think our children should. They want to move in this space, either from the culinary aspect or from a business aspect. I think it's a great entry point. My niece works there, my nephew works there, red's daughter works there, my granddaughter works there. It's a great summer job. Yeah, it's a great summer job for people, but there's actually a lot of room for growth in this company. This is very early. My family couldn't, the kids couldn't contribute to the music that's already there. They were born into that. My grandkids, they were born into that With this company. They're here now, at the beginning, at the ground floor.
Speaker 1:That's cool.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, I'm like yo. Do you want to take some business classes? Let me know I'll invest in that if you bring that here. Yeah, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1:And you're having a lot of success, right.
Speaker 2:You were on.
Speaker 1:was it the Today Show? Did I have that right? Yeah, won Best Burger in America on Good America. Sorry, good morning America.
Speaker 2:No, but we've had really great success. I mean, we've collaborated with. You couldn't have told me that nothing in my life would have had me partnering with Levi's, much less a burger. You know what I'm saying. Traveling around the world. We did the burger in Malta. Most people don't even know where the fuck Malta is. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, godzilla, like a godzilla collaboration, like the japanese godzilla. Yeah, right, the original. Like just so many different things, man, like the things that we love to do outside of burgers. We've been able to do with burgers slowly but surely, and it's, it's a fun ride, man. I can't wait to see where this shit go For real. I think this burger has the potential to be here longer than me. If I do it right, if I do this right, it's going to be around a long time.
Speaker 1:What's the big goal? What's the big vision of it? Do you want Trill Burgers to be all over the United States, all over the world? Where do you see it going?
Speaker 2:What's the future? I would love to have enough locations to where, if people want to try it, they can have access to it. That's the thing. I feel like everyone in the world should try a Trill Burger at some point in their life, because they're missing out on it. Because a friend told me he's like you know, your burger is the best burger in the world. I was like well, how do you know that? He's like because the best burgers in the world come from America, you have the best burger in the world. I was like how do you know that? Because the best burgers in the world come from America, you have the best burger in America. That's technically the best burger in the world.
Speaker 2:I've been to some places. I've found some badass burgers. I went to Paris for Fashion Week last year. I found a little spot, a very nondescript spot, a nondescript road, and that motherfucker was close. I was like that motherfucker was close. I was like yo this bitch is good.
Speaker 2:I was like this bitch is good. And I was talking to the chef and I showed the chef who we were and showed him that and he was like so you're checking competition? And I showed the chef who we were and showed him that and he was like so you're checking competition? I said yeah, because I really. I said in my mind I really don't think anybody can make something close to what we do. I don't think anybody's getting close. I said this is very, very close. I would not want to deal with your burger like at a customer on a daily basis, because it could go either way Like this. But I think you know with us, you know you pay for the burger, but there's a lot of culture that you get for free, of course, of course, and it provides an entry point for people who want to go deeper. There's a lot of people in Houston that go to Trillburg's and eat the burger. They ain't never what UGK is. They don't have any frame of reference for that shit.
Speaker 2:They probably had it at the rodeo All they know is people said this was a good burger. They ate it. It was a good burger.
Speaker 3:They come because they want to get a good burger.
Speaker 2:We get the flatbed trucks with the four flags and somebody coming in like, yeah, you guys could use some MAGA merch in here. No, Trump Burger's around the corner.
Speaker 3:Exactly there I could use some.
Speaker 2:MAGA merch in here and, all you know, trump Burger's around the corner.
Speaker 1:Exactly Like there's a Trump Burger?
Speaker 2:here Is there, yeah.
Speaker 1:You have a Trill Burger and a Trump Burger.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's a Trump Burger, probably less than a mile away.
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 2:Yeah, probably about a mile away About a mile away.
Speaker 3:Wow, wow, I didn't know that, and they're already in legal trouble.
Speaker 2:They lawsuits against each other.
Speaker 1:I was getting hungry and now you had to bring that up. Let me ask you this question. You're an entrepreneur, you're an educator, you're a mentor, you're an artist. What advice would you give to a young person who's getting into the music business, who's an entrepreneur? What's the one thing that you would say then, do this or think about this.
Speaker 2:Think about where your equity translates, and when I say that, what I mean is that realize where they know you and where they trust you and see if you have anything else to offer those people in that way. The only reason I would have even allowed this burger to be called Trill Burgers is because I felt it was Trill, Because we can question a lot of different things about this burger, but if we got to question the idea of whether it's Trill or not, we've already lost.
Speaker 3:You lost, yeah, you lost.
Speaker 2:So Trill Burger would not work with somebody outside of me, because the first thing we're going to ask is what makes you who told you you was Trill Type of thing Before we even get to the burger, talk to me about this Trill shit, what you know about Trill. People are going to ask you about that.
Speaker 3:People are going to question that shit.
Speaker 2:Somebody's going to approach you about that, you know. But I think at the end of the day, we realize that this burger is now a cultural export, like this burger is. In the same way that people argue about who the favorite rapper is, people are arguing about what rappers do in the best business and all that type of shit. You know you got, but I got a long way to catch up with vitamin water and all these different champagnes and all that type of shit. You know, but give me a minute. Give me a minute because you're on the way. You definitely I'm on the way, and the reason I know because I'm in a space now where I get, when people come and try the burger and I get two different answers.
Speaker 2:People that just really like the burger and be like man, this is a really, really good burger. It's a badass burger. People that are like entrepreneurs and business-minded people. They try it and they say you got something Like. You got something Like. This is a pure product. This is a very real, legitimate product. It's not a fraud. And you know I'm saying this burger lives in spaces that I never am in. You know I'm saying like I can't be in there every day to sell this burger. This burger's got to live on its own it's got to stand on its own too you know I'm saying dave, can't sell you wendy's every goddamn day.
Speaker 3:No, great crock can't go to every mcdonald's.
Speaker 2:You know I'm saying so this burger has to be legitimately real and people realize. Because you eat this burger and then you go home and you try to eat another burger. You fucked up, yeah, you're like this is the thing. You're fucked up, and it's not just the fact that it's a smash burger. You go and eat just another general burger in terms of the flavor combination. You know what I'm saying. This burger. If you take everything off of this burger, just eat the patty, it's good food. You can't say that with probably 85 90% of the burgers out there. Bro, it's frozen meat. You know what I'm saying? If it's meat at all, right exactly if it's really meat.
Speaker 2:So that's why scale for us is not a rush like we're gonna grow this company as big as we can, Exactly if it's really meat. So that's why scale for us is not a rush Like we're going to grow this company as big as we can, while giving people a quality product. Yeah, keeping the quality and then at some point it's just going to be like you know, we're going to have to partner with a farmer.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know what I'm saying, like, because I mean we sell a lot of food, bro. I can imagine we we sell a lot of food, bro. I can imagine we sell a lot of food at the store. And then when the football season starts, it's even crazy, crazy, crazy time, because we're open on Sunday at noon at the stores while we're open in the stadium. In the stadium, yeah, and we're selling thousands of burgers in the stadium in that three, three and a half hour period. Yeah, well, four and a half hour, because they started letting people in at 11 o'clock. We got to have food ready to go at 11 o'clock. It's a lot, bro. It's a lot that we do. It's hard work, but it's a legitimate brand. People getting good shit, people getting real good food. They can bring their friends to a game. It don't matter who you're rooting for. That Trill Burger is going to be right on time.
Speaker 2:It's going to hit regardless. It's going to hit man. You don't have to go. That's the thing, too, about Trill Burger. You don't have to go to the. I don't want to have something where you got to go to the good one.
Speaker 3:Yeah, the one on 54 is all right, but the one over River Oaks, that's the one you don't want to do that.
Speaker 2:I get people wanting to come to the flagship because obviously it's built around experience. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you want to go to the original the other stores.
Speaker 2:Really, people just want to get their burger and go home the flagship store is for. Yeah, that's right, baby. We in Trill Burger. You know what I'm saying? It's going down Money Bum B. I see you, baby, that type of shit and I want to afford that to people.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Because we get new tourists to Houston every day. I'm sure Like, look at our sports teams, bro. Yeah, all three of our sports teams could potentially be perennial playoff. You know what I'm saying? Teams for the next few years. You know we get a lot of new chicks. The home of Beyonce, and that's the crazy thing. Like Beyonce tours all over the country but everybody assumes wrongly, as we find out now. Everybody thinks Houston's going to get something extra. Even Houston thought that. So to see Paris get it. So everybody was like oh, we know, we finna get it in Houston.
Speaker 3:We didn't get nothing.
Speaker 2:I think Atlanta might have been a week later bro.
Speaker 3:It was, it was, it was like a week later A week, later, that dude came out, hove came out and they broke out the horse and it was like, oh my God.
Speaker 2:I was like come on and they almost killed her in the fake slab.
Speaker 3:That's what Houston did. Yeah, it's too much.
Speaker 2:But no, it's been a fun ride, man. We're still excited about it. We still got a lot to learn. It's going to be some more growing pains because as we scale, we're at four now, we'll probably go up to six to eight, possibly next year. Once we get to that point, we're going to have to have some conversations. There's only so much self-funding you can do at a certain point. If you don't come into this crazy liquid and you don't want to be spending your money doing your business. I know that's richest. That's not how they're doing it exactly what I'm saying.
Speaker 2:So so we're figuring out how to maneuver that type of stuff, but we're getting better at it. But we don't want to build our benefits around mandatory growth, like I see in the sneaker business. Like you have a sneaker store and you'd be like, okay, you guys get two size runs, you're going to get 24 pair of the new shoe. How do I get more pairs? You got to open another store. I can only give you this per store.
Speaker 2:So if you want more shoes that make more money, you got to open more stores, which creates more overhead and more expense and all of that. So to get more money, you got to open another store. So it becomes a whole thing. So we just have to rely on a model that we can handle. Yeah, you know what I'm saying. So we can keep hands on it, because I've seen a lot of great people build up some amazing brands right here in the city of Houston and bring in investors and bring in finance groups, and one thing doesn't work and you know, people lose. People lose their share in their stake in their stuff and then the restaurant goes on and still got your grandmother's name on the goddamn door and you ain't got nothing.
Speaker 2:It's a lot you know and look, I'm no better. I can look back and see that I didn't make a lot of the right business calls for certain things because I was uneducated. But that's on me. It's on me to educate myself about this.
Speaker 1:You live and learn, so you live and learn but it doesn't deter me.
Speaker 2:That one thing I can say none of the mistakes that I've made in life have ever deterred me from going in a path where I could potentially make a mistake again on the way to success, If I feel I can get there. It's going to be hard to stop me from trying.
Speaker 3:Yeah, tom, you want to do the announcement.
Speaker 1:I mean, we got to stop talking about food, because I'm starving now and I want a burger so bad and they do not have one right here yet. But I'm going to get one. But, yes, we got a big announcement, folks, right? Yes, you want to start us, jeffrey?
Speaker 3:So well, you go, you go, well you go, you go, and I'll jump in.
Speaker 2:I'll go, I'll go. Yeah, you go, Bun, you go. So this beautiful backdrop that you see behind me, this is, if you've ever seen me do any interviews or any, if you saw me on Shannon Sharp and Nightcap and all of that this is the backdrop. This is Bun B's guest appearance guest interview backdrop. But I'm going to have to find a new backdrop because next week I'm not going to be a guest. I am actually going to be a host with you, gentlemen, on Glossy and we are partnering up to bring more content to the Merrick Studios family. I am excited about this. It's a long time coming for me, because one thing that I always say I don't want to die with the game I've been given right. So I need some kind of outlet to get out here and get this game and at the same time, I'm in new spaces, so I still got some game I need to learn.
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm so you know, we got to have these conversations in order to give and to get right. So what better place to do it, and what better partners to do it, than right here in Merrick Studios with you guys on Unglassy man?
Speaker 1:I don't think we could have said that better. Welcome, welcome, bambi. I'm thrilled, I'm excited, I'm ready to learn from you, I'm ready to tease you a little bit, I'm ready to go at you a little bit. I'm up for it. I think we're going to have something really interesting here.
Speaker 2:I'm just going to have to start going into the office because my wife says I talk too much. A lot Queenie always says I talk too much.
Speaker 1:Well, now we're going to put a mic in front of you.
Speaker 2:All you got to do is know the right question to ask you, and you're going to talk all day.
Speaker 3:Yes, so now that's my job.
Speaker 2:That the right question to ask people. I'm going to have to interview Queenie so I can get more information about how to interview people and how to get that content out of people.
Speaker 2:I'm excited, man. I'm excited. I think, with all respect to Rolodex, I think we can bring some amazing guests on here with some very unique perspectives, very particular walks of life. I have a lot of different people that I've been friends with that I've had casual conversations with about certain things, but never really sat down and got into the mind of some of these guys. I've had friends who were just up-and-coming comedians when I met them and now they're worldwide phenomenons and guys that were backup guys or thief number three in a movie and now their title, their name's on the top of the marquee and their producers and directors and writers and all of these different things now. And it'd be like I met a motherfucker in 03 and I'd see him again in 2015. And he's a whole nother person.
Speaker 2:I mean I will you know, and I never get the time to really ask these people, man, like what the fuck happened bro? Like really ask these people, man, like what the fuck happened bro? Like how did this shit, how did that shit go? Like, man, dude, I was here, I'm this part, you know I'm saying so, and there's some people who I've met that have really interesting stories about how they got where they've gotten to, and I think other people need to hear that shit. You know what I'm saying because I was surprised about what I've learned from different people, from doing, like, I think you know, like you meet somebody you think, oh, you must be good at this because you do this. Oh no, I never did that shit before in my life. I met somebody. I kind of fumbled my way into this thing and then found what they all it's.
Speaker 2:It's all about that moment when they, they like when it clicked for them. You know, like people ask me all the time when did you think that? When did this click for you? I tell people, as an artist, it clicked when I got signed right as a musician, it clicked when, for me, the, the, the menace called. That's when I was like, okay, these are people who don't necessarily know and they're we getting a totally different opportunity that, even as a musician with a record deal, you, you don't get to do this.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so it's different.
Speaker 2:And then and then, honestly, man, like big pimping, as a record changed the way I get to live in this world, because there's there's very few places that I can't go to and say I did this record and then I or go in. There's not a club I've ever been in on the planet where that record didn't come on and that record didn't go. I've never seen it. Language barriers, cultural barriers all of that shit.
Speaker 2:That song cut through, bro. It's a very unique experience. I love to talk to other people about their big pimping moment, or when did they find their burger? You know what I'm saying? That's what I tell everybody Go find your burger bro, go find your burger, bro, I love that. Get out here and go for it, but you got to go for it.
Speaker 3:You got to go, and that's what we're doing with this. We're going for it. I think I found another burger.
Speaker 2:And that's the thing when you actually dream for something and chase it and catch it, you start running after all that shit. Now I'm a dog chasing taxi cabs and shit, Exactly Because I caught one. I caught a car, bro. Now I feel like I can catch all of them. You ever catch a fly. You think you're Mr Miyagi Robert, I think I can catch them all now.
Speaker 1:We're building something special here. I'm excited that you're on board.
Speaker 2:I think we're like-minded people, but I think we have different perspectives. I think we're interested in a lot of the same things. I think we're curious about how different people kind of walk their walk, and I think that we can get some great interviews done because we're going to be thinking similarly but approaching differently. Yeah, and I think the key word you just said that thinking similarly but approaching differently yeah. You know what I'm saying?
Speaker 1:And I think the key word you just said that about all of Merrick Studios is curiosity. There's so much curiosity, there's so many great stories out there and we want to be able to help people tell them.
Speaker 2:Me too, man, I'm in, I'm here, I'm in, I'm in. So take a look guys. This is it.
Speaker 3:The new face of unglassy baby this is it?
Speaker 2:no? Right there? No, and there's more to. Come and look. If you guys are watching this and you guys think you got some good content, yeah, come with us.
Speaker 2:You know what I'm saying we can't do it all by ourselves. We would love to put some people in position. There's probably somebody watching this right now. That's got a great idea and a great approach to conversation that nobody's even considering right now. Right, and we want to hear about that. We want to meet you. We want to see your bubbly personality and hear your voice and and just be sold on this thing and get behind you and support you.
Speaker 3:That's what we want.
Speaker 2:So, tap in with us, enjoy the shows and if you got some shows, pitch them let's see, let's see what we come up with Guys. Thanks so much for this interview. It's amazing. Thanks so much for this opportunity to transition into something new. I'm excited.
Speaker 3:We're super excited, man bro.
Speaker 1:We are honored and excited.
Speaker 3:Thank you for giving us the opportunity to work with you. No, problem.
Speaker 2:So I guess we'll all see you guys on the next episode. We'll see you on the next expert and.
Speaker 4:I got to go get a burger right now. Won't be the best burger.
Speaker 1:I'll come and get yours soon, though. Let's do it. Let's do it. All right, folks, that's our show. Tune in to Unglossing the coding brand and culture on Apple Podcasts, spotify or YouTube, and follow us on Instagram, at unglossypod, to join the conversation.
