Unglossy with Bun B, Tom Frank and Jeffrey Sledge
Unglossy is a raw dive into the cultural forces shaping identity, creativity, and influence today. Hosted by legendary rapper, professor and entrepreneur, Bun B, alongside music industry veteran, Jeffrey Sledge and brand and marketing guru, Tom Frank, this is a conversation about cultural impact.
Through real stories and unfiltered dialogue, Unglossy explores how artists, entrepreneurs, and visionaries define themselves, move culture, and build legacy beyond the gloss of hype and headlines.
Tune in to "Unglossy" on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube or wherever you catch your podcasts. Follow us on Instagram @UnglossyPod and join the conversation.
Unglossy is produced and distributed by Merrick Studios. Let your story take the mic. Learn more at https://wearemerrickstudios.com
Unglossy with Bun B, Tom Frank and Jeffrey Sledge
Chris Shepherd: Houston, Hustle, and Taste
James Beard winner Chris Shepherd pulls up to Unglossy with Bun B, Jeffrey Sledge, and Tom Frank to talk real kitchen life—no foam, all flame. He traces the glide path from Tulsa dishwasher to Houston icon, why cooking clicked when school didn’t, and how using all five senses beats any recipe card. We dig into Underbelly’s whole-animal, write-the-menu-daily chaos; the gloriously unhinged One Fifth experiment (five concepts in five years); and the way Houston’s Vietnamese community reshaped Gulf flavors—from crawfish boils to kimchi on a “Chinese-Korean” menu. Bun and Chris revisit the night they wrote wine notes together (“that tastes red” is canon now), we adjudicate the great gravy debate (brown on almost everything; white strictly for chicken-fried), and Chris breaks down how Eat Like a Local can take a chicken-fried steak from 50 orders a week to 400. Most importantly, we go deep on Southern Smoke—emergency aid, mental-health care, real safety nets for hospitality workers—and how you can help. Come hungry, leave useful.
🎙️ Tap in. This is Unglossy.
"Unglossy: Decoding Brand in Culture," is produced and distributed by Merrick Studio and hosted by Bun B, Tom Frank and Jeffrey Sledge. Tune in to hear this thought-provoking discussion on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you catch your podcasts. Follow us on Instagram @UnglossyPod to join the conversation and support the show at https://unglossypod.buzzsprout.com/
Last week on Unglossy.
SPEAKER_01:Everybody, let's celebrate. Celebrate every single day you wake up. If you wake up, your eyes open, you got your faculties, you're alert. Celebrate. And in that moment, you're happy, right? In the moment of celebration, you are happy. Yeah. Unless you got the less negativity out there, because we can't change nothing else out there. We can change what's in here, though. We can change our heart feels. We can change how we feel here. Let's do that. Let's work. Let's work on that together. Everything else. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:From the top.
SPEAKER_07:I'm Tom Frank.
SPEAKER_05:I'm Jeffrey Slick.
SPEAKER_03:And I'm Bud B. Welcome to Unglossy.
SPEAKER_07:Real stories, unfiltered dialogue, and the voices moving culture beyond the gloss, pipe, and headlines. So buckle up. Unglossy starts next. Alright, fellas, we are back for another Unglossy. We're rolling at this point.
SPEAKER_03:This is old hat to me now.
SPEAKER_07:Oh, you got it down.
SPEAKER_03:I'm here fully. I got the beginner, the beginner episodes, you know, out of my system. I feel like I'm raring to go. You're ready to go. Yeah, yeah. I'm feeling good, man. And I'm I'm getting some good responses too. Like people are like, yeah, this is this is pretty dope. B I'm coming. And I like it though, but I like it. And again, you know, this is just what we're doing at Unglossy. We're doing a lot of other things at Merrick Studios as well. Absolutely. Please stay tuned. We're trying to onboard some new content. And uh I'm I'm excited about the future. I really am. Yep, yep, yep.
SPEAKER_07:I I like that people didn't see it coming.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, people know I'm a very reserved kind of guy. You know what I'm saying? I'm not I'm definitely not the guy that likes to hear himself talk, but I love to talk. You know what I'm saying? Especially with like-minded people. I'm in this stage now, obviously, just wanting to learn everything I can find under the sun. I'm absolutely I'm a sponge. I'm just absorbing knowledge right now. And and this is a great place to gain knowledge, and it's a great place to see it out loud as well. So I think we gotta, I think we got something here, guys. I think we do. I mean, it was talking when I got here, but I I want to make sure I'm helping bring this thing to the next level.
SPEAKER_05:To the next level. No, we could. We got it. We got it. We got it. I think Jeff got the big point mic today. I was saying mic, I thought I was just adding it to the side so you could never really see it. But I thought it was.
SPEAKER_03:Ah, I see all the fancy management.
SPEAKER_05:Exactly, exactly.
SPEAKER_03:All the mics and whatnot, you know. Okay.
SPEAKER_07:Speaking of, I guess, mics and even more so, great guests that we can learn a lot from. We got one today. Today, we welcome Chris Shepard. He's both a James Beard Award-winning chef as well as one of Houston's most celebrated culinary treasures. He's known for his bubbly personality and his love for the city. He's held court at some of Houston's best restaurants, and his Korean goat dumplings. I would like to try those, are regarded as the single best dish in town. Wow. In 2015, due to the health concern of his friend and former Sumaya. Am I saying that? Thank you. Thank you. I gotta learn how to say words. Who suffered from MS. He and his wife, Lindsay Brown, founded the Southern Smoke Foundation, which was started to raise money for MS. In 2017, it extended its services to help chefs and restaurant staff get through hard times caused by natural disasters and other circumstances, eventually helping out not only the affected people in Houston, but wherever help was needed. He also produces the annual Southern Smoke Festival, a fundraising effort that brings in some of the biggest chefs around the country, like Rodney Scott and Aaron Franklin. All this, and he still finds time for his TV show, Eat Like a Local, where he introduces viewers to the people and places that make dining in Houston such a great experience. Welcome, Dunglossi, Chef, Chris Shepard.
SPEAKER_02:Thanks for having me. You know, amazing. So this is gonna be another show where I end up being hungry.
SPEAKER_05:Chris, I got one question to ask you. I might get you in trouble.
SPEAKER_04:Right from the get-go. Right from the get go right out the back.
SPEAKER_05:Exactly. Gotcha journalism, exactly. So uh I read that you were uh born in Nebraska but raised in Oklahoma, correct? Yes, sir. So the thunder or the rockets.
SPEAKER_02:Rockets always. Rockets.
SPEAKER_01:100%. You're leaving your hometown team?
SPEAKER_02:That wasn't there when I left. When I left Oklahoma, they were still in Seattle. So I would have been a supersonics, you know. Gotcha. I've been fine with that too. Gotcha.
SPEAKER_05:You know what?
SPEAKER_02:I'm glad that Oklahoma has that. But yeah, no, I'm uh I'm uh Nebraska Cornhusker and Houston, Texan. You know, that's how it works.
SPEAKER_03:You see, where I was going, Jeff, I thought you were going Corn Husker or sooner.
SPEAKER_05:That's a good one too, though. That would have been equally good, yeah. That's a good one too.
SPEAKER_04:Go big red. That's what I thought. I'm a Nebraska guy.
SPEAKER_05:Nebraska guy. Okay, okay, okay.
SPEAKER_04:I can take that. Okay.
SPEAKER_02:There's ups and downs, you know. It's uh, you know, I I have a heart, I'll be honest with you, and this is an unpopular opinion because my wife went there. I am not a UT fan, mainly because of their contract back in the day where they destroyed the Big 12.
SPEAKER_05:They did. Oh wow.
SPEAKER_07:I can understand and I can appreciate that. That's a high thing.
SPEAKER_02:You know what, everybody that's like that wait till you see, they're like, yeah, I get that. You know what? Because then all of a sudden I got I gotta go Nebraska Northwestern or Nebraska Pennsylvania. I don't get my Nebraska OU or Nebraska Kansas. I don't get that anymore.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:You know, so you know, and now it's all changed. You know, you get SEC and what have you, but yeah.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah, okay, okay. That that's for a whole nother podcast because I have a lot of opinions on college sports right now because it does drive me a little crazy. I'm not gonna get I'm not gonna try I'm trying to I'm gonna try not to get worked up about it. Okay.
SPEAKER_02:Although as I sit and watch UT, I love their coach, I love what they're doing, so it's hard for me to really be angry anymore. Okay.
SPEAKER_07:So you grew up in Oklahoma though. You got to tell us a little bit about you know your upbringing and kind of some of the first foods that grabbed you.
SPEAKER_02:So yeah. Um born in Nebraska, grew up in Tulsa for sure, and you know, didn't I wasn't a good student. I wasn't really, I didn't really nothing challenged me. And then it's funny, I I got I didn't know what I wanted to do when I got done with high school. And you know, my friends are like, you should go to business school. And I'm like, what am I gonna business? Like, I don't know what that means. Like, what are you telling me to do? Like what what happens after I business degree it?
SPEAKER_07:And so um business degree it.
SPEAKER_04:I don't know what that meant.
SPEAKER_02:And so I don't want to do anybody's taxes, I don't want to and I I ended up going to like Tulsa Junior College, and after uh about a year of not actually going to class and just going and playing like um uh ping pong in the student union, like they were like, maybe you should take some time off and figure out what you want to do. You're just giving us money to bail everything. And um, so I took a job as a dishwasher in a sushi bar in Tulsa in 1993, which was arguably uh maybe the only sushi bar in Oklahoma at that time. Because sushi wasn't a big thing back then, right? No, man, it wasn't. It was a small little spot in a strip center and run by a Japanese chef, and you know, he did all the things right, man. He was fine as fishing two, three days a week from LAX, you know, coming from the Japanese market. It just was before its time, and you know, at one point, you know, after scrubbing eel pots and peeling shrimp for you know nine months or ten months, like the tempura guy didn't come. And so I got I got a I got elevated to tempura and then working saute in the grill. And then I asked my boss, I was like, Can I work behind the sushi bar? And he's like, No, you need to go to culinary school. And I was like, I don't even know what that is. And he's like, It's where they teach you to cook. And uh my parents had moved to Oakland or to Houston. My dad was in the oil business a couple years before that. So I was like, you know, this was 95, so it was like you weren't searching the web for like curriculums you had to mail off and get the things and from colleges, and I started looking at all them. I was like, well, the art institute in Houston has basically the same setup as the CIA in New York, and I get free rent because my parents are there. So I moved to Houston with the aspect of going to school and then moving back to Tulsa to start my career. Well, the educated one, I guess, or after culinary school. But uh I soon realized I went back and started interviewing before I graduated, and I was like, man, I can either be a small fish in a really big pond, or I could be a big fish in a small pond. And so I was like, I'm always gonna take the small fish in the big pond. There's more room to grow. I fell I fell in love with the city, I fell in love with Houston, I fell in love with the diversity, the product, the people, and the restaurants, and yeah, it just there was no way I was going to do it. Wow. Did you always have a few years ago?
SPEAKER_05:Where did you start a passion for cooking? Or it was just you just took this job and it it sparked something in it.
SPEAKER_02:No, it was it was one of those things I didn't realize it was a career, right? And and this was before the food network, this was before, you know, the food network was just in like 95 taking off. You know, and you got Emerald and Bobby Flay's first, you know, two hot tamales, and you know, it wasn't really there wasn't really it wasn't what it is now, right? They definitely paved the path for cooking to be pretty cool, right? And I remember telling my friends that said you should go to business school. I was like, I'm going to cooking school. They're like, Why? You know, it's like I don't see it. There's what are you gonna cook at home? Like, what are you doing? Like you're gonna learn how to make cakes for the family? I was like, No, I think this is a thing. And and so it really it was the moment of like me growing up and my parents, my mom always cooked, and my grandparents, my mom, my grandmother same. And I would just I remember being a kid laying on the floor in the kitchen reading cookbooks while they were why my mom was cooking, and um you know they were very thoughtful with me and helped me. The first book that I ever got was the Walt Disney cookbook, and it they gave it to me in like 1978, and that's the only thing that I have kept my entire life. Wow, there's a tons of cookbooks at my house for sure. Thousands, but there's only one that's on a pedestal and on display, and it's that one. And so, yeah, it's like you know, how to make a grilled cheese sandwich, or you know, they had the Dagwood special and it would show you how to make the thousand layers, you know, whatever, and it had all the cartoon characters from Disney at that time having recipes in it. So, you know, for for an eight-year-old, it was it was perfect for me.
SPEAKER_05:Wow.
SPEAKER_02:Six, I guess. Wow. And so that, but I didn't realize that cooking was an actual career until like there was culinary school, and then I was like, oh, this is a thing. And then it was like accountability, and it was like, you know, if you were late twice, you're done. You know, you start over again, and it was like, okay, this is a thing. Like there is there's there's more to this than I thought, and then it was like I'll never forget the first day they were like, anybody in here know what a consumer is? And I was like, I have no idea what you just said, zero knowledge. Uh-huh. I have uh it was like blank slate for me, and and it was the best thing that I ever did. Wow.
SPEAKER_03:What was it about about culinary school that made you think this is me? Like, this is where I'm supposed to be. Like, I'm meant to be a chef. When was that when did that light come on and be like this is exactly where I'm supposed to be?
SPEAKER_02:It was all the things you know that you say that you you're told you can't do, right? Play with your food, use knives, play with fire, like and it really just enthralled me with like transformation of product and using more than just your mind, but using all of your senses. And it's like, well, I may not be able to think through this as fast, but I sure as heck when I taste it, no. Or I can feel it and no. And it it's I can see it and I know, I can smell it and I know. And so it was like for me, it was the all-encompassing thing of being able to just be better through not using one thing in my my system, right? I could use it all.
SPEAKER_03:Does that make sense? Yeah, yeah. No, it absolutely does because you think you know, cooking is just you get the ingredients, you put it in a pie, you you mix it up, and it should come out like that. But the ingredi, the notice of the ingredients, like dealing with vegetables, making sure you've got right vegetables, you know, making sure you've got good, clean uh meat and whatnot, just making sure you're understanding how to pick product, right? Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Well, and and and my wife will say it now, she's like, You're I am terrible, absolutely terrible at reading recipes, following recipes, or writing recipes. Like, absolutely horrid. But if you put product in front of me and I just see it, right? And it's like most of the time when I'm cooking at the house, like I'll go to the store or whatever, buy stuff, or even at the restaurants, and then it's like, why did you think of that? And like it just made sense to me. And it's literally like listening to the product and understanding like this is a technique that should this should be for, or this is a flavor profile pro flavor profile that this should be for, and it's working those things in.
SPEAKER_07:I think it's interesting what you said about the five senses, too, because we we talked to um Marcus Samuelson uh uh ways ago, and one of the things that really grabbed me about him is he he was saying when he would cook, he could close his eyes and literally hear the way something was sizzling right, and would know exactly where it was, when it was done, which always amazed me because it was about hearing, seeing, tasting, smelling. It was all the senses that kind of helped him figure out and because we all think of it as as Bun said, I'm just reading instructions and doing what it's saying, but I never think about it from that perspective.
SPEAKER_02:It's like I'll read it, I I buy way too many cookbooks to the point of my wife has a one-in, one-out rule now, which I don't really I don't really follow that. I just they're out in the garage, I find other places. Yeah, she knows, but it's it's one of these things like I'll look at something and I'll just look at the title, I'm like, okay, I get this, and then all of a sudden it's other things spurt spark from there. And then it's like once you and this is I think what a lot of home cooks don't or young cooks too don't understand is that it's repetition. And once you feel comfortable with yourself and you believe in yourself, like most of the time, like we're doing dinner parties or I'm making dinner, I don't taste it. I just know I can smell it. And it's like Marcus said, you can hear it. You hit you use your other senses to to bring something to the fold. So it's like I may taste it at the very end, I'm like, yep, nailed it, we're good. You know, but it's not like a process that goes through. As you go through, you know what you're doing, and that's just through repetition and having confidence in who you are as a cook.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Was there any dish that you ran across in culinary school for the first time that was like, okay, this is a little bit left field, like if it's a Chateaubriand or a Wellington or Coco Van or some kind of dish that you're like, why can't I nail this?
SPEAKER_02:It you know, for me, everything at culinary school was a blank slate because I didn't know anything. I was like, I don't know what you're talking about all the time. So I was literally like a child with open eyes, like, just give me everything. And it was, I was like, I need to absorb everything. And you know, for at culinary school, it was funny because they were like, you should not go to school and work a full-time job. And I'm like, I don't understand that. I know how hard this industry can be, and you're telling me not to be hard on myself now to get myself used to it, and so like I lived in Clear Lake, and culinary school was in the galleria, so that's 45 minutes plus traffic, right? And so my day consisted of get up at 5 a.m. be gone and be at school by 7, and then leave class by 2 so I could get to work at 3, get home by 11:30 or 12, do some homework, shower, and get to bed and do it again at 5. Like and that's that's the life, right? So why would you I don't why would you not do that, right? That's the understanding. And so like everything that I put my time so to answer your question, Bill and like everything I saw was a challenge to me. And it was like, okay, roasting a chicken was the most beautiful thing I've ever done. And then I just did it all the time. And and it was understanding that one time doesn't make you good at it, doing it a thousand times makes you good at it. And the Chateaubriand is still delicious, and like all the things you mentioned, I love a cocoa van, like, but I want to think of it in a different style, right? I don't know if I necessarily want to eat real old, I do want to eat older chickens. Let's say that. I do, and that's the purpose of that. Because I like to try that. I want to eat eight-year-old dairy cows that have done processed and like now I want to try it all. You know, weird.
SPEAKER_05:That's not weird. That's not weird at all.
SPEAKER_03:So, where do you land when you're coming out of culinary school? Where do you land first? Like what kitchen do you land in first?
SPEAKER_02:So, when I was going to school, I got a job at Houston Country Club, working under a master chef and doing banquets, and like you're doing parties for 200 to a thousand to if not more, and like ice sculptures all over the place and doing proper technique for everything. And you know, and then I I but living in Clear Lake that was a that was hard. Um because just the transit. And so I I took a job at a restaurant called Tommy's Patio Cafe, which is still there, it's uh Tommy's something though. They dropped the patio apart and did that for a little bit, and then took a job at Bentwater Country Club up in Willis. And this was the greatest thing, right? Because I sat down next to just a human that like pushed me to be better, right? And uh Randy. And we started day one together, and we just every day was like push each other to be learn more, push each other to like you didn't do that knife cut properly, or whatever it was. And he took a job at Brennan's, and I was up at Bentwater, and it was because at that time I was married, and I was I got my first salary position, making seventeen thousand dollars a year. Yeah, I mean, I'm telling you, this industry pays. Uh I got insurance, and so but I'll never forget Randy lived up in that area, that's why I got that job. And he came by one night after service, and it was a Saturday night. And he called me, he's like, Man, I'm gonna swing by on the way home. I was like, all right. And we're sitting there, and he's like, Man, we did 450 covers tonight. Just got pushed around all night. It was awful. He's like, What'd you do? And I was like, I put out the member taco buffet and left by eight. And he was like, What the what are you doing with your life? And I was like, that is a very good question. And so I ended up two weeks later work starting working with him at Brennan's, and I worked there for nine years. And um, you know, that was at that point in time I had Mark Hawley as my sous chef, and he was just such a mentor to me. Um, but you know, it was like cooks these days don't do this, whereas like you're getting just pushed around seven on a Friday night in the middle of service, and you're playing culinary trivia with the other cooks, like, name this sauce. And like it was just like it was always constantly learned and constantly like pushing yourself to be better. At that point, I spent seven years in the kitchen, and in my off time, I wanted to learn about wine, and I had started that at the very beginning when I went to culinary school. Like, there's a magazine called Food and Wine. I probably should know a little bit about both. And yeah, and so I always, you know, had wine in my future and and and tasting and learning. So uh I already passed my first level in the quartermaster somier's, and I was like, just out of like I wanted to do it. And our wine buyer was leaving, and I looked at the our GM Chef Carl, and I was like, Can I take over the wine program? And uh so I ran the wine program for two years and then opened another restaurant called Catalan and then Underbelly, and then so on and so forth after that.
SPEAKER_05:A friend of mine is uh is uh was a Somalier, she's not anymore, and she was telling me they how difficult it is um to really look to really learn that skill with different type of bouquets and this and that. It's it's a very almost like a scientific skill to learn.
SPEAKER_02:It is, yeah. It's very methodical. But everything is different, right? Every year it's different. Every vineyard site, even 50 feet from me, the the grapes are gonna be different than the ones where I'm sitting at, you know, if I were in the middle of the vineyard, like it's all soil content. It's it's it's just to me, it's like I guess maybe my mind doesn't stop. Most people it just seems time consuming.
SPEAKER_03:It is. It is. But but in a good way, right? Like a lot of things. Look, it's in the most delicious way.
SPEAKER_02:In the most delicious way, Bon, you know that. Like it's it's so good. We wrote a wine list together once. You came into the commentary. That's true.
SPEAKER_05:Okay, that's true. Well, break that down a little. I want to hear about that. I didn't know about that.
SPEAKER_02:Back in the day at Underbelly, our wine list was very different, and it was had characters and drawings, and like it was fun, free-flowing, and it was it was beautiful. And somebody said something about understanding the restaurant business and wine lists, and I was like, Well, it's understanding front and back, side to side. And I was like, Oh man, I need to talk to Bun.
SPEAKER_04:Wow.
SPEAKER_02:And so Bun came in and we went through the wines by the glass and was like, just you know, tell me what you're thinking. And then he was like, This is what this flavor profile does. And so, like Bun doing tasting notes on all the by the glasses. That's dope.
SPEAKER_07:That is cool. Man, that's a that's a fun job to be asked to come do. Hey, sit here and drink this wine and tell me what it tastes like.
SPEAKER_03:No, I did. I I it gave me a well, here's what happened. I remember asking Chris. I was like, um, I was like, I always see pairings, right? You always go somewhere and you go to a restaurant and they'll always have the dish, and it's um, you know, to be paired with, or they'll give you a recommendation for pairing. And I remember asking Chris, I was like, Chris, I don't really drink wine. Like, I I don't like wine preferably at all. Um, am I missing out when I eat certain dishes and I'm not pairing those dishes with a certain type of wine? He was like, Yes, absolutely. No. There are combinations that will only occur when you have this dish and a bit of this wine and a c and a cut in a combination. Right? And I was like, well, I don't know. He's like, well, let's let's talk through it. Let's kind of go through it. And so it was just like, these are the kind of these are whites, these are reds, this is this, this is that. I didn't retain any of it in terms of in terms of in terms of differentiating between what's a what, right? I assume a red is a red because it's red. Right? A white, but but once we get beyond that, the color distinction is I'm I'm lost. But it was fascinating.
SPEAKER_02:We we did like a heavier red wine, and he he just looks at me and goes, that tastes red. And I was like, You are crap. And it was like, and that's what we put on the list. This you can literally taste, like so you know, you get into Pinot Noirs and stuff like that, and maybe they're just softer and lighter, but you get in that full body, and you know it. It's there. And and and and I thought that was like just the most brilliant commentary for that because it was like, yeah, no, that is full circle right there. So yeah, it was great.
SPEAKER_04:Absolutely.
SPEAKER_03:All right, so we're getting ahead of ourselves though. So oh boy. So you're woke, you're working and you're working under the chef, and then uh just a lot of it's catering, and that's scale. And I'm always fascinated by scale because you would think, you know, if you read a recipe and it says this feeds four, you gotta read and you have to feed, let's say, a hundred, then you just 25X, right? In theory. Yeah, but it doesn't really work like that in scale. So you're learning a lot of of being thrown into that world as well. When do you find a restaurant home for yourself?
SPEAKER_02:I mean, that was for me. Your initial, I guess. Yeah, for me, it was having my own, right? And that was underbelly, and understanding like that if I wanted to do it exactly the way I wanted to do it, I had uh I had to have it be mine, you know, and and I loved working with people. I always have, but for that instance, it's like underbelly was I don't know what that was. It was sometimes I think it was a bad decision, sometimes I think it was one of the best decisions. Um but it was the hardest restaurant that a human could possibly open in a in a way that um underbelly was the side of things not seen, right? And so it was the diversity that exists into our city, it's the people that are existing in our city, it's the people that we love because even it's Houstonians, um, and I think any city that you live in, unless you really see it and you get down into it, you don't know it's there, right? And I think if people live on Katy and they drive into downtown, they miss everything that happens upon you know Long Point, where it's one of the most diverse streets of the city, or the Vietnamese culture, or the Chinese culture, or the Middle Eastern culture, like all of these cultures that exist, like how do we talk about that? And so what I wanted to do with this restaurant was to open a place that focused on not just the cultural diversity of the city, but the product diversity of this city. So all of our products, whether it be meat, fish, all the fish came through our Gulf waters or local waters, and then everything else came from within 150 miles. So not just that, but on Tuesdays, a thousand-pound steer was brought in the back in eight pieces, and then we that had to be broken down by Thursday, because that was two to three 250-pound hogs that showed up. And then Thursday, Fridays were goats and lamb day, Saturdays were poultry day, seafood was every day, and then produce outside of your staples, like onions, carrots, celery, herbs, garlic, citrus, if not in season, and potatoes, if not in season, were just dropped off every day by the our farmers.
SPEAKER_05:So you're you and you were moving that much product, you were moving that much food to be able to move pound steer in a week.
SPEAKER_02:It was a hundred. Wow. Yeah, 180 seat rests. But like, if you got if we ran the butcher's cut, which was basically just the grilled steak set, um, it would change four times throughout the night on a busy night. So it would just go down the list, and servers have to look up and be like, all right, it was ribized, now it's okay, now nope, now it's flank, now it's flat iron, you know, and it was just like because we just have to go through as much as we could, and we did. But then you're also having to introduce people to like here's an entire beef shank for six people. And there's only four. Yeah, yeah. So there's because there's only four legs on a couch, you know.
SPEAKER_03:So like no, I dealt with it. I remember my my first underbellied dinner. Yep, I believe it was Queenie and I, and it was Debbie and Dwayne at the time. Dwayne Brown and Debbie Dev were married at the time. And I remember sitting down at the table, and Chef was like, okay, I'm gonna I'm gonna start sending some stuff over. It starts well enough salads, appetizers, a couple of veggies, and then it begins. I've never been hosted by a chef at said chef's restaurant. So we start getting everything, and I mean everything. And about four or five dishes in. The waiter says, How you feeling, B? I said, This is a lot of food. I said, I don't know how much of this food we're supposed to eat. He says, When you get tired, let me know as soon as you can, because there's probably gonna be about two or three dishes after that, so I could give him a heads up. They brought they brought so much food. And then Chris comes over. I say, Chris, I can't eat all this food. We there's no way, even with Dwayne here, we can't eat all this food. He's like, I don't expect you to eat all of the food. Just want you to taste what we're what we make it. Just taste it. I was brought up in a way that if you didn't clean your plate, it was disrespectful.
SPEAKER_04:I agree. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:You know what I'm saying? And this is my first time, again, my first time being hosted by a chef at his restaurant. So I'm like, if he keeps bringing food, I gotta keep eating it, right? Like, and I just had to tell him, I was like, Chris, I can't do it, bro. I can't, I cannot eat all this food. We cannot eat all this food. And I'm so glad that he took that pressure off me of just like, you know, just just taste it. You don't have to eat everything, just just taste it, see what you like on the menu.
SPEAKER_02:And I look back at that now, and I did that too, uh, you know, I did that for some people when and not uh it didn't happen all the time, but it was like now when that happens to me, I'm like, please just don't do that. And so like that was that was like the young Seth mentality of like, I want you to have it all right now. And it's like maybe I should just cut that back to like maybe you should just have five things that are really solid. They're I think they're all solid, but like maybe just five, you know, and and not really because it can be a memorable experience, but also you don't want it to be a memorably painful experience of like later you're like I can't move. I tried, I gave it my all, but now I'm just so full I can't move.
SPEAKER_03:Chef, I want to ask you about something that you we talked about once at at uh underbelly, and it was the idea of giving your underchefs and other cooks on your staff the opportunity to reinterpret some of your dishes. Oh yeah. Absolutely. Can you talk about that?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, no, I realized from a very young age, or I should say young chef age of this, that like you're good as the people that you have around you, right? And in in the kitchen, they always say that you're only as good as your last plate. And I'm always like, no, you're only as good as the last person you train that could put out the last plate, right? Because you're giving the opportunities to people. And so every day we would sit down at like 1 30, and everybody had to be a part of the minion. Meeting and everybody had to have their ideas, and we would work through these things together. And it would be like they would come up with an idea and be like, let me work with you on that. And just like help them, you know, progress in their careers. And we had a really good amount of like everybody's running restaurants now, so it's pretty amazing that that's happened.
SPEAKER_07:From that original team at Underbelly?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I mean, even one of them, Daniela, was named um, what was it, the San Pellegrino best female chef in the world in 2019. By the world's 50 best, yeah. So and I'm not saying I had any, but maybe just a little bit of push and a little help through those things. She's you know, she's an exceptional human being, and so but that's just that's kind of how it works, you know. You you gotta train people to be who they can really be. Because you know what? I would say that if my boss at the sushi bar wouldn't have told me to go to culinary school and unlock that for me, I wouldn't, I wouldn't be where I'm at by any means. And so you never know who's gonna be able to do that.
SPEAKER_07:And we'll be right back.
SPEAKER_03:Welcome to Merrick Studios, where stories take the mic and culture comes alive.
SPEAKER_07:We're not just a member, we're family, bringing you smart, soulful, unjectured conversations.
SPEAKER_05:And this season, we're bringing the heat, but our biggest lineup yet, whatever you're into, music, sports, business, we got you covered. Merrick Studios, where the conversation starts and keeps going.
SPEAKER_07:Check out our full lineup, including Ungalski with Bun B, Jeffrey Fledge, and myself, Tom Frank. Now streaming at we are MerrittStudios.com.
SPEAKER_00:Master the art of lyrics with Pendulum Mink, the first school for rap. Learn elite techniques through immersive lessons, real world exercises, and guidance from hip hop icons. This is where MC sharpen its skills and glow boldly on the mic. Ready to level up? Visit pendulummink.com and start your journey today.
SPEAKER_07:And now, back to the show.
SPEAKER_02:Is it okay if I move to a different place? It's literally sprinkling and has been raining on me for like five minutes. I can still talk while we do this. Wisconsin, you can give a little bit of a lot of things.
SPEAKER_07:I think it's interesting though, because I think what you just said goes across all business, all industry, right? Like as a business owner, you're only as good as the rest of your teammates. And being able to train them to actually do what you're doing and most times do it better.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I mean, it's giving people the opportunities in life, right? And when people can feel that you believe in them, they can believe in themselves. And I think that's a very beneficial way to look at things. And that's what I have always tried to teach the people that have worked with me is that you can do this and you can teach somebody else that. Because if you just hold on to the knowledge yourself, what are you doing? And and that that literally does translate to any in any industry that translates.
SPEAKER_03:You've done all of this amazing work in this restaurant. You've made regional access to product a very intentional part of what you do. You've you've tried so many different culinary dishes, as you said, Indian, you know, American, Chinese, Japanese, all of these different types of cuisines, and you've gotten pretty good at them. But you're realizing that to try to do them all at one time at the same time can be a little bit overbearing. Yeah. Talk to us about one of the most unique concepts I've ever seen is the concept of one-fifth. I don't want to go into it. I would much rather you break it down as far as the idea, the you know, the approach, and the execution. You know, when when I said that underbelly, underbelly maybe was the dumbest idea.
SPEAKER_02:This is fascinating. No, scratch that. This was definitely one-fifth was definitely the dumbest idea. Um and that was purely like it was the way it worked out, is like my wife and I were literally talking. We're probably year four into Underbelly, and it was like every day, all day, every day. And the conversation was like, how do we back out of this a little bit? Like, like the like take a little bit more of that what do they call it? Understanding work-life balance, right? Trying to figure that out. And I had this opportunity for a restaurant that was down the street to come look at it, and it was Mark's, which was like this high-end fine-down restaurant for 20 years, 19 years, and he was closing it. And I had the real estate company say, Hey, you want to come look at this? I was like, Yeah, I want to see it, of course. Why would I not want to? It's historic, you know. And we walked through it, and at the end of it, they were like, So what do you think? You wanna you want to take this over? And I was like, That's a bigger conversation than what I just had with my wife, you know. It was like, um, I don't know. So like, let's go back to Underbelly, let's have the conversation there. It's like, all right, we get there. So this kind of like a real estate play for us, right? We only want to hold this building for two years. So, do you want to take it for two years? You can use all the plates, you can use all the equipment, you can do all this stuff, and you don't have to do anything, just basically we'll turn the name and you have a restaurant for two years. I was like, it's gonna cost way and to me, it was like you don't understand like finance the finances, right? Uh is that like it's gonna take me two years to even come close to do anything with this to get it moving, and then all of a sudden we're gonna be done with it. I was like, you guys wasted my day. Um, and I wish I would have walked back on this one, but it was really smart. Um, I got up, walked from the table, and I took like five steps. And I just turned around and I said it. I was like, I'll take it for five years. Um I'm gonna change the concept every year. And y'all looked at me like, what? And I was like, well, if I only have it for five years, I want to see what I want to do when I grow up. And if I can run five concepts and see out of those, have the opportunity to have one full year of experience on each one of those, maybe I like two of them. And I'll do two of those restaurants out of the five, and that will give me like a proving ground. I immediately called my wife and I was like, I need you to come up here, let's have this conversation. Of course, at that time my wife was in PR and uh restaurant PR, and I told her this, and she was like, Yes, and I was like, I was fully expecting a no. And she's like, No, this is really smart. And so first concept opened, George, which was the steakhouse, and we looked at it as yes, Houston has a lot of steakhouses, but what would it look like if you were to come over to our house and have a steak dinner at our place? Right? How would I cook it? What would the music be? What would decides be, right? Because I don't want to do a normal what you expect, a fillet, this, uh that, you know, cream spinach, a chocolate dessert. It was seafood tower. I went out on the like we went and ate every seafood tower we could. And it was like every one of them had like crab legs, and I got one that had a whole lobster on there. Like, not even broken down, just a steamed lobster, boom, right on top. And I was like, who's gonna eat that? Who knows how to do that? If my wife and her friends go out before the ballet and they go and get a seafood tower because it sounds delicious and there's a whole lobster on it, nobody's touching it. And so it was like, okay, we have to reimagine the seafood tower now. Okay, now we're just gonna pull everything from shelves, we're gonna do all the work, we're gonna make these beautiful salads, we're gonna do, you know, we're gonna cast iron sear all the steaks, we're gonna put music on the radio that would be basically, or the the sound system that would be basically like at my house. What would that playlist be? And so it was anywhere from Metallica to bun, right? It was all over the board, but it was fun, it was energetic, and so it was it was which did turn into a restaurant. And then the next year it was like romance languages, so a focus on French, Italian, and Spanish on a high-end version, which I did not really care for. I realized that I wasn't really into the higher end fine dining sector, and that's what that was. It was like really plated and like hard work, and then we did Mediterranean, but we went and learned from the team at Zahab in Philly, and it was I think that was just a brilliant concept. And then we did Gulf Coast and then uh Red Sauce. Yeah, but then pandemic hit, and then it kind of became morphed into all of them at some point. Like, what's good for to go? Okay, well, hummus is great for to-go, so we'll do that, you know. And so we kind of flipped back and forth, and then I decided the last minute, I was like, you know, right before pandemic, I said it. I was like, we only have a year left, we're gonna do lightning round. And I announced that. Man, I'm glad that that didn't happen. Because I was like, we're gonna change it whenever we want, however many times we're gonna do it. And I was like, it's just gonna happen. I was like, this is insane.
SPEAKER_07:But it you know, it's like one of those things that we would close so you could change the menu.
SPEAKER_03:No idea what to expect if you're asking Gulf Colt they get love language. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:But you know, it was one of those things like because we started off and we closed the entire month of August. And we would redo uniforms, we would redo menus, we would redo the interiors, and then it was like, man, this has got really expensive.
SPEAKER_07:Oh, that's what I was gonna ask. So you flipped it over in one month. Between every year, you would close one month to flip it all over.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, that only happened like the first two, and then we just said no a dice, and we just we rolled. I was like, we're not changing interiors, nobody really notices this. And we may do some paints, we may do some different lighting, we may do, but not like full-on everything. Yeah. You know, it just it just got to a point where it's like, okay, this is your new uniform, and we're going in a week, you know, and like we would start working on it for months ahead of time, myself and the culinary team, and run normal service, but then it was like, okay, this day it's done, and next week we open.
SPEAKER_05:So wow. That's an incredible concept. I mean, I know it's hard and expensive, but yeah, too ambitious.
SPEAKER_02:I mean, it was it was hard to see. But you know what? And and for me, like, and and this was the and this is how society works, and I didn't realize this. To me, if I love something, you know, you always you see it the most is like when a restaurant's closing, like they're super busy, right? Because people want to support it. And for me, or like if it's new, they want to support it. And for me, it was like, well, if you love this restaurant, you're gonna continue to come for that year, right? But it was like a checklist for people. They would come when it opened, and then they would come for the next concept when it opened. Yeah, and they would come, and so they're like, Well, I did all five. And I was like, Well, you don't get a passport stamp for that. Like I need you to be here once a month, you know.
SPEAKER_05:It's not doing me any good favors by that.
SPEAKER_02:Like, I need you here like every month. And so that was uh that's kind of where it was. That's amazing.
SPEAKER_05:No, what I wanted to ask you as well. Like, I know I uh as I said, we talked a bit before the show, but um I talked to Bun about this before. Years ago, I went, I was down in Houston seeing Bun about something, and a f a co-friend of ours, a mutual friend of ours, Premium Pete, who we love. He's uh he's this Italian cat, he's jersey, he's like super Italian, right? Oh, he actually has his own sauces and stuff now. He's like a really good cook. And he took me to a Vietnamese restaurant in Houston. I don't remember which one it was, but it was incredible. And I just wanted to ask you like, what do you think that the draw to Houston is for the Vietnamese population? It's such a huge thing.
SPEAKER_02:Well, it was deemed a safe haven after the Vietnamese War, and the Catholic Church brought a lot of the migration over to it. And then it just it's sprawl and it's the weather, it's very similar. Um, there's the community, and once you get that first round of of immigrants that move into a place, then that it just grows on that. Yeah.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:I'm sorry, go ahead, Craig.
SPEAKER_04:No, it was really it was really the Catholic Church and it being a safe haven.
SPEAKER_03:See me, I I've I was introduced to the Vietnamese community when I my mom and I moved to Port Arthur. And the way it was explained to me is that most of them came from a fishing background. Yes. And so they were the primary, I know for myself in Jefferson County, they were the primary suppliers. Like you would drive through the neighborhood and see fishing nets hanging from trees, drying out. And it would, and what it would do, they would have, let's say, three families in one home, right? And it's a huge house, it's a big house. There's those three families, but there are maybe five or six different people that are working on said boat. So they all bring those those resources back to the house, they pull everything in, and because it's all under one roof, you've got six people sharing the rent, the light bill, and all of that type of stuff. And then outside of these houses are that's back when they had the drop Z states and all of that stuff. All of they had all the best cars. They had all the nicest cars with the stereo systems and the rims. They had everything nice because they were pooling their resources. You know what I'm saying? And they they were a large part of our community. We went to school with many Vietnamese Vietnamese kids. A lot of our good friends were Vietnamese kids because we all kind of grew up under the same conditions, right? In that small town, and they were even less of a minority. So they got shit on, you know, all of the time. But they were very quiet, very humble people, very chill people. Some of my best friends and my business partners are currently Vietnamese, you know, Andy Wen and my fam, you know, great, great chef, great business-minded people. Texas has really benefited from the influx of Vietnamese. We haven't, we haven't had any, like, there's no hard crime in their community. You know what I'm saying? They pretty much keep to themselves, but they're very welcoming, they're very hospital ho hospitable, and uh, I think we've really benefited. And the crazy thing is, well, Vietnamese people also eat crawfish, which is probably the biggest communal food that we have here, second to barbecue, right? Like the easiest way to get somebody to come over and talk about something you don't want to talk about is telling that so-and-so is boiling crawfish. And you'll get them. But there are two different types of crawfish, right? So crawfish in the black community, or let's say the southern community, I should say, is more powder-based, right? I would say powder would be more powder-based as far as their seasoning. Yeah, and again, whereas the soaked. Yes. And they're like oil-based. If I'm am I correct on this, Chris? Or I'm so there's I don't want to generalize it, right?
SPEAKER_02:Well, the the old school, like I say at the Southern Boilhouse, right, is more of heavily seasoned water, you boil the crawfish, and then you keep them in that, you turn it off and you soak them in that water, and so it penetrates the shell. Right? With the Vietnamese culture, it's more of because having went to Vietnam and it's like, where's the crawfish? They're like, Yeah, we don't do that, but the idea of it's more you'll see sections of the city that's that is snails, and sections of the city that's like river prawns, and sections of the city where it's all these restaurants that are the same thing. But it's what it is is the communal aspect of sitting outside or sitting together under one roof, picking with using your hands, eating like crawfish, like you would, you know, sitting around eating crawfish and having conversation with family and friends, and big opportunities to do that. And so, you know, having talked with the guys at crawfish and it was like, what is it about it? And they're like, we like the sweetness of the meat. We don't want a cloudy the flavor of the meat, but we want the seasoning on the outside. So instead of the dry seasoning boil aspect of it and soak, the Vietnamese version is boil quick in clean water or just lightly seasoned, and then it goes into melted butter and garlic and all of the seasoning, and it gets tossed in that and then put into a bag and steamed out. And so when you pick it up, instead of like with the Louisiana style, where it's maybe like the dry seasoning on the outside, the meat is really seasoned. This is all the seasoning on the outside that just kind of lathered at it with more butter and more garlic than the human should consume at one point in time, and and the season and the meat being really sweet still. So it's it's very much a different thing, but it's it's amazing on both sides.
SPEAKER_07:And it's similar to like a Maryland blue crab. Like up here, we have that's the communal big dish is you know, crabs. You put the crabs out and it becomes makes yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Yep, no, it was something that when they moved here, they saw and it was it latched onto it. Because I went I would look I went looking for crawfish when we were in Vietnam. They're like, yeah, no, we it's it's river prawns here, or snails, or clams, or this, or that, but it's the act of sitting together as a communal family and sharing time. Yeah. And and Bun's right. Yeah, you walk into one of the things that we're gonna do. All cultures in one room.
SPEAKER_03:And because our main, I guess, seafood would be crawfish, it's just the same sauce, it's just which what what's regional to you, what what's accessible to you, and you would put that in said sauce. But it's it's I think we as humans have really I don't think we realize how much of our food depends on who we want to commune with. I don't think we consciously think about that. You know what I'm saying? Like you have to you have to go into a restaurant and be around other people in order to kind of eat food, right? And so even if you're not at a table, if the vibe at the tables around the restaurant kind of set the tone for the restaurant. When I when I say that, I say you can walk in a restaurant and be like, yeah, this isn't my kind of place. This might be the kind of food I want to eat. They absolutely sell the kind of food I want to eat, but this this doesn't look like the kind of setting I want to eat this food in. I don't think me and the people in this room can find but you never know. Sometimes you go in and sit down and give it a shot. People, people break the ice, they say, you know, you just made a friend in Cleveland, you know. But I think about that with the thing. I love that about restaurants. I think about that with sushi too, though. Like I I tell people that that sushi is meant to be eating different than the way we eat in restaurants, right? It's really supposed to be in a more of a familiar setting. I would say, well, dinner, Japanese dining in general is more of a familiar setting. But it's strictly about the communion that's done while we're eating. But um, you know, barbecue. I mean, that's what we we do. If you want to get the family over, tell them Uncle So-and-so is barbecuing. Well, I don't want to see Brenda, but if we're in your barbecuing, I'm going to eat the food.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, yeah, yeah. What you do?
SPEAKER_03:I I'll I'll bring I'll bring the ice in the cups. Another fun thing you told me. Um, I would love for you to talk about gumbo and how people tend to pick their gumbo. This was fascinating to me.
SPEAKER_02:I mean, I think when you start talking about gumbo, it definitely that is a regional specific thing, but inside of that region, it's way different. I think when you get into, I feel like this is the statement of almost every person when you're like, because everybody will ask you, do you make a good gumbo? And it's like, who in your family makes gumbo? And like, well, my grandmother, my dad, I'm like, okay, I'm third best. You know, it's like everybody thinks they're the best at making gumbo, except for you know, it's very much a familial thing. So your grandmother, your mother, or your father, whoever makes a gumbo in your family, is always gonna make the best. And then it depends on their style, right? You can do more of a brown roux, you can more do seafood where it's okra and philee driven, but then you get into like that like real bat and rougey Lafayette style gumbo, where to me it's uh man, it's gonna be bad. Kind of dirty water gumbo. Rue is really dark, really, really dark, and it's not very thick, but it just gives it that flavor and it's like kind of acrid to me. But it's just it's really regionally specific. But when you start to look at that, everywhere around the country has their gumbo. It may not be gumbo, but in the Chesapeake, you guys have a seafood stew.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah, right?
SPEAKER_02:Clam chowder, same thing. You get into you know in Gulf or West Coast and it's Chapino and it's all of these things, so it's all the seafood stews, but it just depends on how you look at it.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Well, I've never thought of gumbo as a seafood stew. Well, I've never thought of gumbo as a stew. Well, to keep in mind though, this is a very thin line between a gumbo and a stew, right? Yes. And I think it's brown foot.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, that root.
SPEAKER_03:Right, right. The brown, yeah, for sure. But that's about flour, right?
SPEAKER_02:Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah. I mean, because when you start talking about brown root, all you're doing is either butter or some kind of fat oil and flour, and you're stirring and it's starting to cook its gluten and starches out, and it becomes flavorful and more and more flavored depending on where you start at. And sometimes people go really dark with that, and it gets really kind of bitter, and it doesn't have the thickening properties that you would if it's a little bit less, right? And so it can that's that that's that dirty water I talk about.
SPEAKER_03:Which something I bring this up because I know Jeff is a big gumbo guy.
SPEAKER_07:No, I'm getting hungry again.
SPEAKER_05:But but you know I'm saying that it always makes you think of West.
SPEAKER_03:And whenever New York boys whenever the New York boys would come down to Texas, Mama West would make them a gumbo.
SPEAKER_05:She'd make him a gumbo? Absolutely. Cats would just come, cats would just pop up at the house and just man, we and you said it was a communal thing. We'd all sit around and eat the gumbo and also be in the kitchen, and they'd be picking my brain about New York, New York, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, but yeah, absolutely, man. Absolutely. Chris, tell us tell us about um Southern Smoke.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, because I know this is very important to you. Sorry, to do this real quick. I'm the worst podcast person on the face of the planet.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah, you've only moved three or four times. We'll fix it.
SPEAKER_02:I know. Well, it's because I've been in a DM car all day long, and so I need to do this. So Southern Smoke was something that my wife and I founded back in 2015, like you guys were talking about, for a friend of ours that was diagnosed with MS. That we did that for two years. Um, and the very first thing it was like, well, how do we know how to raise money? And that's through food and beverage and parties, right? Everybody wants to go to a party. And so that very first year, I called Sean Brock, Rodney Scott, and Aaron Franklin. And said, Hey man, can you do this party in the back parking lot of the restaurant? Maybe 200 people.
unknown:Wow.
SPEAKER_02:And they were like, Yeah, no problem. I wanted to close the sidewalks around the restaurant, so I went to the mayor's department of special events and she was like, What are you doing? And I told her, and she's like, No, not doing that. We're shutting down all the streets around you. I was like, Wait, what? And she's like, Yeah. We're gonna give you the mayor's stage so you can have music, entertainment, we'll help you build all the infrastructure, we'll get you the elect you know, the people that can do all of the infrastructure for it, electrical, all of it. And you're gonna have a thousand people.
SPEAKER_07:I was gonna say, that's a little bit more than two hundred.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, that's what I said too. Um my wife and I walked out and I was like, what the heck just happened? And it was like, well, I guess we're throwing a festival. And so I called the guys and I was like, hey, are you good with this? And they're like, yeah, no problem. A thousand people for sure. And I was like, I'm gonna raise, I want us to raise a hundred thousand dollars. And Bun was there that first year as well. Um he came out and just I didn't tell anybody Bun was gonna be there. And he showed up and did a couple of songs, and it just it blew all expectations of a of a party away. Thank you. I've always been a part of this, and so it's it's as um as much as it is we do this, you do this too, and so I love you forever for that. Um just so people understand that too. Um, but that first year I said I want to raise a hundred thousand dollars, and everyone's like, don't say that. Because, you know, when you start doing infrastructure and costs like at the end of the day, you're like, here's here's a thousand dollars, you know, and it's like but we raised we we wrote a check for$181,000. And yeah, wow, and then year two, same thing. We had we had eight chefs come in, right? And then uh we we wrote a check for$284,000 that year. And then year three, Hurricane Harvey happened. Um it really put our city into a place where you know, and as many things as people were doing for good. Um J, you know, JJ Watt raised what, 80 million. Um the mayor had a fund, Red Cross, but none of that at that point was gonna help people that lost work. Because at that point it was like, you know, food and beverage workers is who we need to look at, you know, and and how are the dishwashers gonna make rent? How if they how are they gonna how's this prep cook gonna he lost his car, or she lost your car, or this farmer lost their crop, or how do we take care of these people that really take care? Who's gonna take care of the person at Jack in the Box that is working the drive-thru that is barely getting by to begin with, and didn't work for a week or two, or lost clothing, or lost their home, or whatever it may be. And so I I we said, you know what, we'll figure it out. And we looked at a uh company or an organization called the Giving Kitchen out of Atlanta, and they fund food and beverage workers in their time of need, right? But they they take care of rent and electricity. I you know, Lindsay and I said we we can't define what a crisis is to somebody, and so we want to broaden that scope of like we want to hear what it is that's a problem, and we'll work through it with you, and we'll put you we'll put finances out there for you. Um so we put it on an application process, and that year I think we had 16 chefs. Um and um we took on 230 applications and we funded 139 families a half a million dollars.
SPEAKER_05:Wow.
SPEAKER_02:Wow, yeah. And so at that point, we realized that MS Foundation will always do something for them, but it this this needs to be food and beverage because there's no real safety net for anybody in the industry.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah, right.
SPEAKER_02:There's not most restaurants, like it's so hard to do things like insurance, and like most restaurants just can't do it. It's not viable, it's not feasible, um, especially you can get into large amounts of employees and things like that, but it just becomes hard. And a lot of times it's a passion-driven, you know, industry. And so you may be working week to week, month to month, check to check, right? And or maybe two jobs, depending on your situation. Who knows? And so something happens. What happens if you know you trip and you know you're you're on your family day out at the park, or you fall off your bike or whatever, who knows? You twist your ankle and you can't work for a week or two weeks. What happens? First off, how do you get to the doctor? Second off, how do you pay that bill? Third off, how do you pay, how do you, if you can't work, how do you pay all of your bills? Then how are you putting food on? Like it's a spiral that just is so hard. And so we decided, you know what, we're just gonna keep doing that. And the the festival has grown over the years, for sure. Um, you know, we took off 20 and 21, and then we came back pretty big in 22. Um, and now this year in October, um, well, you know, not it not a thousand anymore, but more like three, thirty, five hundred to four thousand people. Um we remember. So it's coming up. Wow. It is. And you know, we started with the exact date. October 4th.
SPEAKER_07:October 4th.
SPEAKER_02:And so, you know, this year, like I said, we started off with four chefs. This year it's 84.
SPEAKER_03:And these are not bullshit like chefs. These are some of the best and the most highly regarded chefs in the country.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:That come out.
SPEAKER_02:Everybody, everybody kind of wants to be a part of it, you know, because it's one of the only things, because as as Bun now knows with with Trill, that you get asked to do everything.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And and there's it very rarely is it something that can give back to the staff that you're working with, right? And this is something that you're doing for your own industry that really you can get behind and feel good. And so, you know, when I say that when we started this, you know, that$500,000 for industry, since 2017, we funded almost uh we're right at$15 million with all 50 states.
SPEAKER_06:That's well done.
SPEAKER_02:And and then we had all the chefs in 18 uh at the festival. We had the conversation of like, how do we make a change in our industry? And um it was just the chefs. We had a closed door luncheon talking about it, and it was mental health is where we got to, because we just lost Anthony Bourdain, and we lost a couple other chefs just recently. The idea was that we're gonna fix it, we're gonna fix problems before they start, right? Because you start thinking about all of those things that I mentioned earlier if you twist your ankle. Okay, well, now you're sitting in your house at two in the morning freaking out, having these bad, you know, anxiety attacks because you can't afford to take care of all these things. Well, you need to talk to somebody. And so we figured out a program in 20, it was June of 20, where um, because University of Houston, their PhD candidates for the psychology department could not graduate because they were not getting their hours of clinical studies and clinical hours. Mental Health America knew we needed something, so they put us together and like maybe there's something here. Well, we found that if we fund the universities, like somebody funds the football program or the basketball program or the baseball program, we fund the psychology department, and in turn we get clinical hours um given to us. So we started the behind you program in 20. And so um anybody, there's two pillars for Southern Smoke: one is emergency relief, and the other is behind you, uh, which if and both of them are the same criteria: six months in the industry, 30 hours a week, doesn't matter how many jobs you get that 30 hours, um, it's just six months and 30. And you can go for both programs if you need, but when you get put into the behind you program, you basically start working with the University of Houston and you get 20 free sessions. And so, and then a slide and a sliding scale after that. So now at this point, we are we just as of last week moved into two more states, and so that brings us up to 12, and we're gonna be at 13 by the end of the year. So, and like some states are bigger, have bigger programs, like New York. We have three universities that we work with. So, like NYU is kind of like the gold standard for us as far as once you get done with the 20 free sessions and you graduate that program, you have$15 session. Wow, that's good.
SPEAKER_07:That's fantastic.
SPEAKER_02:And that's what we, you know, we yeah, we're in California. We're like I said, 12 states right now.
SPEAKER_07:So, where do people give us exactly where people can go? to find out more about this.
SPEAKER_02:Southernsmoke.org. Southern Smoke.org. Talk about the festival, talk about our new thing that we started in the spring, the Canada, which is our wine auction, and then you can find out the programs and how you can help or how you can take how you can use those services. And everything's confidential, you know, we have a team. I don't actually work for the foundation. I know nothing about the nuts and bolts or who who applies or who gets funded or nothing. It's all very internal.
SPEAKER_05:Wow. Wow.
SPEAKER_02:And so yeah, so 2017 we've done what 15 million and over 8,000 clinical free mental health care sessions.
SPEAKER_03:And Chris is being very modest about this. They've they've not only changed lives, they've saved lives.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:You know, they've they've caught people before they hit that breaking point. You know what I'm saying? And and like you said, you know, this country, I mean I don't know anyone right now who doesn't feel like they should be more aware of where they're at mentally or are aware and realize they have they need help. There's so many people that realize they need help and don't have the outlet, don't have the the resources, don't know where to turn to. And so I think it's a beautifully thoughtful thing that Chris and Lindsay have put together. It starts starts here and then it grows for a specific thing but then you realize that well this can help if we think in the right way we can help almost anyone through anything with this process. You know what I'm saying?
SPEAKER_02:And the goal is when we get to 25 or 30 states and we get those online because you know it's and it all of that is fundraising and making sure that we have the right universities that they follow the right curriculum and the access to food and beverage workers and we generally ask that the people that are doing this have been in the food and beverage industry too and so they understand those you know those those deals. Once we get about halfway or over I we're going to start going for free legal counsel. And and I think that will be a game changer too because when you have somebody that can read your contracts read your lease negotiations immigration law tax attorneys and just getting access to free legal counsel and and and representation that changes everything for a lot of people.
SPEAKER_05:Now you're my hero Chris amazing amazing work you're doing God's work with that man. Hey Chris before we wrap up I got another little quick question for you brown gravy or white gravy?
SPEAKER_03:Depends on the circumstances all right let's let's let's talk through it let's talk through it what what does what does brown gravy go on?
SPEAKER_02:Most things actually turkey for sure any kind of like meat product but except for when we start talking white gravy that's a chicken fried steak thing. And I'm a white gravy only on chicken fried steak or chicken fried chicken.
SPEAKER_03:I don't want um brown gravy on that personally but that's why I said everything else brown gravy that's why that's why I asked brown first right brown goes on almost everything and but white should only go on chicken fried protein. Yeah don't give me chicken fried steak with brown gravy man we're gonna say you make your own ketchup just stop it right there's only one ketchup in the world yeah yeah yeah yeah now let me ask you this with this white sauce well let me let me let me get away from that the potatoes the potatoes right there if there's white gravy on the potatoes then that's because the potatoes is accompanying a chicken fried dish. That's the only actual real reason for that yes a brown gravy on everything.
SPEAKER_07:So where did dairy cream so where did dairy well no that's chicken fried steak though right at dairy queen yeah I mean steak fingers are a chicken fried steak technically okay all right okay you're good I thought there was a glitch in the matrix but we're okay I learned a lot we would be remiss though if we didn't ask him one question. We we gotta know about eat like eat like a local oh yeah oh you I mean because I got hooked into watching all these eat like a local over the last couple days my favorite one I'm a I'm an ice cream guy so I got very much into your whole scene of ice cream and uh cloud 10 which bun I I kind of want to go to cloud 10 when I come to Houston.
SPEAKER_03:So that's not do you know what cloud 10 if I'm not mistaken is not too far from Trill Burger. No there's one not too far.
SPEAKER_07:Okay then there's my meal Trill Burger and Cloud 10.
SPEAKER_02:Well that now has become we're that we're that coffee it's now a coffee shop so it's a little bit further but they have four locations of the city so yeah but they just moved they didn't close that one they just moved to another location sometimes real estate works sometimes it doesn't uh eat like a local yeah that the where they were is not great eat like a local was a show that like when I sold the restaurants just to start a different facet in my life I think we all kind of have that thing where we want to do something new. I didn't know what I wanted to do at that point in time but uh I met with the general manager uh our MDC affiliate and he and we started talking Southern smoke and then halfway through he goes hey man I got an idea for a TV show what do you think what do you want to do? And I was like what? And he's like well if you had a TV show what would it be and it was like I'm not a competition guy. I don't ever want to be that I want to tell other people stories and help them tell their own stories and so they can promote them and and we can maybe teach people interactions and and you know to have a food show it really is it's like we just go into restaurants and I sit with either the chef or the owners or whoever's running it and sometimes it's nobody and I just talk about it. But it's it's more of the story of who they are and their story. And so that when the viewer comes in they have an attachment to the restaurant not so much the dish right because uh we're never you know at first like restaurants want to put down 20 dishes in front of us like please don't do that just give me like four or five so people can focus on these four or five things and and really kind of come in for those things. And it it it really changed the scope for a lot of restaurants not knowing that's what it was I was hoping that was what it would do. But you know you gotta have people watch it and people actually watch it and that's great. And so but you know like let's just talk chicken fried steak. You know I'm out in Seeley Texas doing a show on chicken fried steak and I'm like one of the best ones I've ever had and they called me about a month later and they went they said you know what we went from selling 50 chicken fried steaks a week to 400. Wow and it's it's immediate impact on restaurants and so you know we worked through them and and bun you and I still still want a day with Bun I want to make I want to I want to do trail but I also want to go out and see the places that you like to you that you know that you can it really does change things and then the stories there's so many stories I didn't know and you know I I just went and filmed we got season three coming up I went and filmed at this place called North China and it's just North China restaurant. I was like I gotta know more and it's been around it's been in Houston for 50 years right and the idea because I saw I looked at the menu I was like why is kimchi the first thing on the menu and this was how the son told me is that when his grandfather left northern part of China went to Korea right and so opened a Chinese restaurant in South Korea or worked in a Chinese restaurant in South Korea and then immigrated here and was sponsored by the family at China Garden over by Toyota Center. Wow yeah Carol and her family her parents sponsored his fa his grandfather and then he ended up opening North China and what he considers what this restaurant is is what we think of as Chinese American this restaurant is Chinese Korean. So it was the Korean influence of opening and working in Chinese restaurants in Korea that he brought here and so there's a lot of the Korean influences and flavors into Chinese cuisine. So that's how he explained it he was like how you think of Chinese American General Zoe's and all that we think of this through the Korean lens and that's what we learned. And that's why there's kimchi and that's why there's there's like fermented soybean pastes and gochijong in dishes that typically are not there.
SPEAKER_03:So it's like telling these stories is really I think thoughtful in in what I want yeah you think you're doing a good job Chris I don't know man I don't think so I think I think the reason I ask him this is because he's so selfless and he's so humble he's not going to give himself any credit. He's being very very modest throughout this conversation like he has thought of being a James Beard award winner. He's done so much for so many people and he doesn't ask for anything in return and he just goes on about his life he's you're talking to Clark Kidd right now. That's the reality you're talking to Clark Kidd right now you have no idea that there's a cape behind that that polo shirt I can guarantee you that I appreciate that but you know what I just feel like we can always do better and we can make changes and things that we can that we can control and and do better for people every day. I remember Chris saying like you know I was like what is it like like being able to cook like this and like what do you guys think it's like same thing I guess you guys are thinking when you make your music like I didn't I didn't look at what Chris and his restaurant was doing as a cultural representation of Houston in the same way that I was a cultural representation of Houston. And and that's actually what gets these guys excited about what they do. You know to bring their art on the tables around the restaurant night after night after night being appreciated for it is no different than me putting out music and playing on the radio or or streaming online every day and people appreciating it, you know and again it just shows how much of a a community Houston is yeah because when bad things happen the rapper the the chef you know what I'm saying the doctor the lawyer we cross all of these cultural lines and just see each other as Houstonians and it's a beautiful thing. And I'm I'm so honored to be a part of that. I know Chris is as well you know we're cultural exports you know when we go out in this world we are walking talking representations of Houston's culinary team Houston's raps team Houston's culture all of that type of shit and I think Chris has been doing an amazing job man like ever since the day I met him more and more I've I've gotten to know him you know it the deeper I look into what he does and what he has done I I I think it's it's it's remarkable that you can do all of this stuff and like literally just sit back and be like okay what's next like they're raising millions and millions of dollars he's taking no personal credit for it you know and instead he's thinking of well if we did that we're doing this maybe we should look into this as well you know you're doing God's work my man you're doing God's work that's very that's very kind that's very very kind and and I appreciate that but you know what uh I always say that like we're all on the same planet going in the same direction.
SPEAKER_02:If we can align some dots we can change everything. You know and and that's the goal is that like so I guess my last question is no I didn't mean to cut that off I didn't want to cut that off I'm sorry.
SPEAKER_04:No that's that's always the question is like you're getting back in it.
SPEAKER_02:Chris my last question I was like you want to get into you already know restaurants again and like no I'd like to help I just want to help them I want to be a part of the system not but you're happy you're you're happy where you are though I love it in I get the time and the opportunity that work life balance now you know it's like I may have like five jobs now um you know and some of them pay some of them don't but that's fine you know it's it's all part of it and like I learned that I can help with the you know being in the restaurant industry for 30 years that I can help with some experiences with people that have not.
SPEAKER_03:Well Chris we don't want to keep you any longer from your vacation and we wish you a great weekend man. Thank you for being such a great friend a great chef and a great interview I mean this frankly this is one of my best interviews. Well thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate your time buddy I mean you guys are amazing no no you're amazing ladies and gentlemen again the great chef Chris Shepard and it's southern smoke.org is where they can find you to help people in need from the restaurant and culinary industry.
SPEAKER_07:Either and I feel like I need to go get something with brown gravy on it now. Here you go now you know the rules all right folks follow the show on Instagram at unglossy pod subscribe to Unglossy on Apple Spotify wherever you listen to the podcast leave us a comment on Instagram and spread the word and until next time I'm Tom Frank. I'm Bun B I'm Jeffrey Sledge follow the show on Instagram at Unglossypod and leave us a comment. Subscribe to Unglossy on Apple Spotify YouTube or wherever you catch a podcast Unglopsy is hosted by Bun B Jeffrey Sledge and Tom Frank. It's produced and distributed by Fag Studios
